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high end custom knives vs. the average prepper

31K views 146 replies 68 participants last post by  bighanded 
#1 ·
High end custom knives vs. the average prepper

A visit to the gun show plus a post on Survival Blog got me to thinking about this. I went to a local gun show last weekend, and among other things, I made an observation about knives. There were lots of knives for sale.

And of those for sale, I didn't see lots of SOG or Gerber or other popular brands that I frequently see discussed here, although there were some. The bulk of the knives I saw I would break down into (3) primary catagories.

first, older military knives. Second, cheap Chinese stuff, and third, high dollar custom knives.

And to the jist of my question, focused at those of you who purchase these knives, do they hold any value to you as a prepper/survivalist? Do you frequently take these out hunting? Or use them to make kindling/shaving to start a fire when camping?

I could list some qualifiers, but I'm not going to. I collect stuff myself that I have spent many a dollar on that is primarily just for looking at. And that's OK.

I intentionally stuck this question here, vs the knife forum, as I feel I will get a more straight forward answer here, in more of a general forum, vs a possibly more biased answer in the knife forum.

I'm just trying to get a general feel to see if these knives are used, or if their primary focus is to sit up on a display shelf and look pretty.
 
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#2 ·
I think it depends on the person. Most people who buy a knife, it ain't their first knife purchase. They probably collect. That being said, I don't take my entire knife collection out with me into the woods. I think a lot of the bushcrafting knives are sold elsewhere, and those are the ones that people are taking out into the woods and actually using.
 
#3 ·
One thing though, SOG, Cold Steel, Gerber etc. are neither high end and they certainly aren't custom...Then again, if you think anything over a $15 Mora is expensive then I can see where you're coming from.

Is there a difference between a $50 knife vs. a $100 and a $200 version--HELL YES! As you step up you're also gaining better materials for the steel, handle scales, sheath plus getting additional quality of heat treat/temper, attention to details like design, warranty (not always though) and of course makers reputation...Is the $200 knife four times better then the $50 knife--impossible to ascertain as that's completely subjective but it certainly is better then twice as good quality wise.

Now if you're talking collectability then a custom, from a noted maker, will gain in price far beyond what any commercial maker's knife would...A 1970s Bob Loveless that he sold for $300 is around $7,000 today with some models (due to scarcity) are getting $20,000+.
 
#4 ·
One thing though, SOG, Cold Steel, Gerber etc. are neither high end and they certainly aren't custom...Then again, if you think anything over a $15 Mora is expensive then I can see where you're coming from.
I don't. If that is what you pulled from my comment then I did a poor job of explaining. The SOG, Cold Steel, Gerber etc are what I am titling standard prepper type knives.

The knives I'm asking about are custom, typically one off knives with price tags of several hundred on up.

I have absolutely no doubt these custom knives have quality and performance characteristics well above the standard brands listed above. But that's not the question.

I'm curious if the typical person who purchases a $900 custom knife typically might ever use it for hunting/camping/bush craft type task? Or if they are typically relegated to the display case.

I have no problem if it is the later, I have a few high dollar (non-knife) collectables myself. I'm just trying to better understand the roll of high end custom knives.
 
#5 ·
High end custom knives vs. the average prepper

A visit to the gun show plus a post on Survival Blog got me to thinking about this. I went to a local gun show last weekend, and among other things, I made an observation about knives. There were lots of knives for sale.

And of those for sale, I didn't see lots of SOG or Gerber or other popular brands that I frequently see discussed here, although there were some. The bulk of the knives I saw I would break down into (3) primary catagories.

first, older military knives. Second, cheap Chinese stuff, and third, high dollar custom knives.

And to the jist of my question, focused at those of you who purchase these knives, do they hold any value to you as a prepper/survivalist? Do you frequently take these out hunting? Or use them to make kindling/shaving to start a fire when camping?

I could list some qualifiers, but I'm not going to. I collect stuff myself that I have spent many a dollar on that is primarily just for looking at. And that's OK.

I intentionally stuck this question here, vs the knife forum, as I feel I will get a more straight forward answer here, in more of a general forum, vs a possibly more biased answer in the knife forum.

I'm just trying to get a general feel to see if these knives are used, or if their primary focus is to sit up on a display shelf and look pretty.
As SeekHer touched on, imo there absolutely needs to be at least a 4th category to house the higher end production knives. Especially knives like Fallkniven, Esee, Tops, etc. None of which are custom by any means, but are diffidently not cheap China stuff either.

The last gun show I went too this past summer, only had 2 knife venders. Out of those, only one had somewhat higher end knives which were bascially only Esee. Which to me are good knives in they're own right, but are still at the lowest end of what I consider high end knives. All the rest was indeed cheaper China crap. When I approached the 2 venders, the answer was simple..the cheaper stuff sells better to the average Joe walking around at a gun show. Very few are willing to spend $250>+ for a Fehrman, Busse, Mike Erie, Bob Doizer, Chris Reeves, etc. And in turn, very few venders(completely diff from collectors) are willing to invest in such knives. At least for 'sale' only. And rightfully so.

Having said that, a well rounded collection of knives consist a little of all categories mentioned. I have a few I use..then others that are held in reserve for true SHTF duty, collection value, etc. But thats me.
 
#10 ·
I agree completely. Sure, a $300 custom knife is "better" than a sub-$100 Ka-Bar,Ontario,ESEE,etc. but in the real world, it's really not going to do anything those others won't ( and sorry, citing some isolated exception still doesn't disprove the rule).
From a survivalist/prepper perspective, my personal philosophy has long been that it is wiser to have several "good" items (guns,knives,boots...whatever) than it is to have a single "very best of the best" of that piece of gear.
If money is no object to you, then more pwoer to ya , go ahead and get the best, most expensive titanium/kevlar/carbon fiber/radar-resistant versions of everything, but for most of us that have to deal with budgetary concerns,it's smarter,and often just as good, to buy "solid quality" gear rather than the absolute top-of-the-line stuff, and use the savings towards other important preps.
 
#7 ·
I understand that collectors appreciate the art and skill of knifemaking. Some people
collect guitars, and some collect the weirdest stuff you can imagine. There is a huge
difference between a collector and a USER... I use my knives, and I am currently
buying similar knives as backup to my main knives. If someone wants to drop
thousands of dollars, more power to them!! I would like a custom knife made to my
specs, and my budget is $400.00 to $500.00. This would be carried and used daily,
not stuck in a display case. I agree that the extra money could be put to far better use.
I think if the S truly hits the fan, a knife will just be a knife; it is sharp? Does it cut things?
Who gives a crap if it was forged on a full moon, blessed by Swedish wood nymphs and
quenched in 200 year old Scotch? Disposable income indeed......
 
#9 ·
I don't think this is rocket science. Just behavior. If a J6P makes 24K a year he will get China crap for 20 bucks and make do. If JoeBlow makes 100K a year and has money in his pocket he will pop for a 400 Custom. Then everybody else in between.

I don't think the average collector of custom knives shop at a gun show. They know where to buy. A few are showing real professional custom makes (as opposed to homebuilder hobby "custom" grinders). Then there are always a few "merchants" that try to scam the "limited brain function types" with the 1,700 dollar "Special Forces Ninja SKS Long Range Sniper Rifle Vietnam Bring Back" with the Tapco dust cover scope mount with the NCStar pistol scope or a "real" 300 year old Ninja sword for $99.00.
 
#12 ·
In my opinion, the benefit of a "Custom knife" is that it is custom made to my specs!

After 50 years of knife using and carrying I decided to pay out the cash and have a knife made that was EXACTLY to my specifications and not some OTC, mass produced blade I was forcing to work for me.

After making my purchase I took the knife into the field for several trips and found that I desired small changes. I sent the blade back to the maker and he made the specified alterations as part of the initial service.

A "hand made" knife and a "custom made" knife are two different things.
 
#13 ·
honestly there is a tipping point, a point in which the cost of the knife far exceeds the materials, heat treat, and craftsmanship..

i see this point somewhere around the $200 mark...

the difference between a $10 blade and a $40 blade is huge, just as the difference between a $40 blade and a $80 blade and same goes for a $80 to a $160 blade... but i really feel the difference between a $200 blade and a $400 blade (as far as function is concerned) is negligible....

the difference in materials and heat treat alone in a lets say a $50 blade and a $200 is huge, but the materials in (that are actually used for cutting) in a $400 knife isn't twice as good as a $200 knife...

honestly a hand made knife, made from very good materials and heat treated properly shouldn't be more than around $200....

i personally respect and admire the beauty of a finely crafted knife, I've slapped a few together myself so have a fair understanding of what goes into them, i have nothing against the guys who buy the knives from noted makers for collectible reasons, but I'm not the type to simply "collect" anything.....I'm also sure alot of these knives would also make great working tools, but for the money i wouldn't think it's worth it.

knowing what i know about material costs and how labour intensive it can be to produce a knife, i feel around $200 or so, is the price when things start becoming brag pieces instead of working tools...

i'm sure our $$$ limits on what we think an acceptable price for a working tool should be, all varies.... but at a certain point you do need to realize that good steels are not cheap and it takes a fair amount of time to produce a good quality knife.... you simply cannot just mass produce a "good" knife... it really needs to have a humans hands on it for the last few stages...

YMMV,IMO,ect ect ect :D:
 
#14 ·
As others have alluded to, it's really about reaching that "point of diminishing return" where the construction and materials offer less and less benefit even as the price continues to climb, whether based on brand name, custom build or rarity. I personally LOVE collecting knives, but my budget simply won't allow for high-dollar purchases, so I have very few $100+ knives and need a lot more justification than "that's cool" beyond the $50 price point. My usual EDC knives (Gerber Armor and Kershaw Vapor III) were each under $30, and frankly, I'm just as likely to use an even cheaper M-Tech or Guidesman for most tasks. Granted, most of those tasks don't involve survival or bushcraft, but I can only spend so much money on equipment when I don't have the skill set to make use of most of it.

There's nothing wrong with collecting, but I do feel that a lot of knife "experts" are simply collectors who can recite specs but don't have much practical application under their belts.
 
#18 ·
There's nothing wrong with collecting, but I do feel that a lot of knife "experts" are simply collectors who can recite specs but don't have much practical application under their belts.
Am I the exception or the norm?

I have a very extensive collection that spans 50+ years of collecting (20+ as a dealer) but everyone of my knives have been used in the bush--at least once...Being a Camp owner since 1990 and a registered guide since 1967 I clean/dress a plethora of fish, fowl and fauna per year and many times I'll use four, five even six knives to dress out a moose or caribou...I'll alternate the knives to see how they perform.

Any that I have that don't meet my criteria--excluding those that belong to a series/collection--I trade or sell off or give as gifts to my very prolific family...This applies to Scagle, Hunt, Loveless, Dozier, William Henry, Reeve, Randall and many other custom makers down to a lowly Mora.

A simple rule of thumb:
2, 3 knives in the bush is quite normal.
4, becomes redundant unless for a specific purpose--caper, fillet, skinner.
5, you've now become a collector.
6+ only makes you a bigger collector and then you'll start to specialize into handle types, blade shapes, type(s) of steel, folders, Bowies etc. etc. etc.
Welcome to the Darkside!

Most of the collectors that I know don't use their knives outdoors {much} as they really aren't hunters or fishers...Maybe the odd camping trip but that's about all...B U T all the hunters, fishers that I know have fairly good (20+) collections themselves and they usually use them.

A good friend of mine collects nothing but Trappers, Muskrat and Moose pattern knives (+300) and she'd faint dead if she ever had to use them for their indented purposes...How is that detrimental?

People collect cars, bikes, sporting cards, tourist spoons etc...What's the difference and don't say price point as just for an example, sports cards can fetch thousands of dollars.

Blackjack (A2), Dozier (D2) both make copies of the Randall Nbr.1 (O1)...They sell for $185, $895 and $365 respectively...Only the steel is different and of course the reputation of the maker...The Dozier (who I collect extensively) version isn't worth 2½ times the value of the original where the Blackjack is excellent value for the money...Will any of them see combat in today's military? Very, very doubtful, as combat units (excluding special forces) are seldom allowed to carry a fixed blade off the base and definitely not within...Who are the thousands of units made going to go to? Collectors!
 
#16 ·
i have my extensive knife collection as a store of wealth, not as a prep so i dont have any china junk in it. its all benchmade, bark river some EK - ive been selling off some stuff lately and they have been bringing double and triple what i paid for them, not sure if the china stuff would have stored my wealth as well.
 
#17 ·
Well... you also have to think that at a gun show, space is limited and you want the most profit for items sold. Highest profits will come from collectibles and cheap stuff you sell at a 500% markup.

Military knives and many custom knives (many NOT all) fall into the collectible category. And those cheap knives someone always buys 10 or so to give away as gifts or to throw into a truck or something.

Now to your question of if these custom knives get use or not... some do and some do not. Some are shelf sitters and others are cutters. Some are pieces of art to people and other people consider them tools.
 
#20 ·
I kind of collect knives or at least used to. I would use the right custom knife in the field and believe that it could be made into an extension of ones self but there are many customs that are safe queens too. If you look at some of the high end custom knives, you'll see that many of the features you're paying for are purely for looks like exotic wood scales, sterling silver guards or pommels, intricate file work, etc, etc (and that's not getting into the Damascus material some used that may or may not be just for looks). Others like Dozier, Loveless, etc make true custom work knives that I would love to carry if I could afford one and then you're paying for quality, craftsmanship and the name.

Luckily for most of us, there are makers like Buck, Kershaw, Browning and others that commissioned people like Dozier, Loveless, Ken Onion and other custom makers to design a few knives for mass production. I think it's in these knives where most people will find the best bang for their buck by spending somewhere between $80-200 for a mass produced knife that is made with quality steel and has the profile and feel of the designers several hundred dollar customs knives.

The cheap china junk serves a purpose too and is great for leaving in the tractor to cut twine or in the pickup to open up chew cans and the mail or other things where a blade is needed for abuse. Which, in all honesty, is what most people are going to use a knife for 75% of the time anyways.
 
#23 ·
I kind of collect knives or at least used to. I would use the right custom knife in the field and believe that it could be made into an extension of ones self but there are many customs that are safe queens too. If you look at some of the high end custom knives, you'll see that many of the features you're paying for are purely for looks like exotic wood scales, sterling silver guards or pommels, intricate file work, etc, etc (and that's not getting into the Damascus material some used that may or may not be just for looks). Others like Dozier, Loveless, etc make true custom work knives that I would love to carry if I could afford one and then you're paying for quality, craftsmanship and the name.

Luckily for most of us, there are makers like Buck, Kershaw, Browning and others that commissioned people like Dozier, Loveless, Ken Onion and other custom makers to design a few knives for mass production. I think it's in these knives where most people will find the best bang for their buck by spending somewhere between $80-200 for a mass produced knife that is made with quality steel and has the profile and feel of the designers several hundred dollar customs knives.

The cheap china junk serves a purpose too and is great for leaving in the tractor to cut twine or in the pickup to open up chew cans and the mail or other things where a blade is needed for abuse. Which, in all honesty, is what most people are going to use a knife for 95% of the time anyways.
Fixed it for you. :D:
 
#24 ·
I don't own any custom knives - although there are times I wish I had bought one of the Morseth laminated knives in a copper lined sheath, but I was a poor starving student back then.

I could afford a custom knife, but even now, making good money, I have a finite budget and my knife budget is spent on cheap to moderately decent knives. Like a $23 CS Survival Edge as a possible barter knife, to a $65 Gerber LMF as a possible all-around survival knife.

That is my philosophy. I don't think a $500 knife is 10 times better than a $50 knife. My "investment" is for either real life use or barter in SHTF, and in either of those situations I think I am better served, for my dollar, by getting a knife that costs under $100 (street price - I have noticed a lot of knives are near half MSRP when bought online - Amazon often having pretty close to the best prices and a good return policy).

For SHTF barter, most people wanting to trade/buy are neither going to want nor afford a $500 custom knife - if they even know what it is, much less think it will be worth that much. Most people don't want or know about such expensive knives now.

In short, like many other things that are high end, whether it is a million dollar house or a $100+K car, the market is limited.

Something that isn't complete junk and sells for $20 will sell quick and you can sell a lot of them. So IMO $500 invested in 20 knives is better than $500 invested in one. Or better yet, a couple of good $50 knives for yourself and $10 to $50 knives for barter (or gifts) - that is what I am doing.

Also, I am going to feel a lot less pain if I drop a $20 knife into a river or lake or get it stolen than if that knife cost me $500.
 
#25 ·
And to the jist of my question, focused at those of you who purchase these knives, do they hold any value to you as a prepper/survivalist? Do you frequently take these out hunting? Or use them to make kindling/shaving to start a fire when camping?
For the average “prepper”, I wouldn’t recommend high-end knives unless they were a serious knife enthusiast. I’m not a golfer and I bought some used clubs from a friend several years ago; heck, I haven’t even golfed in several years. I wouldn’t know the different between a $2 club and $200 club. My point is that high end knives are typically only appreciated by serious collectors. There is some performance differences between high-end knives and low-end knives, but most would never fully see those differences and especially not for the money.

I have a personal appreciation for custom knives and have used them extensively for recreation, field and even combat environments. I really don’t think I own any customs that haven’t been used and are just stored as an investment.

I will say that quality doesn’t have to be expensive and most serious knife users can appreciate a $15 Mora as much as a $300 custom bushcraft knife. If an average user was looking for a blade, they would be much better served by a quality, inexpensive knife like Mora, Condor Knife & Tool, etc. and learning techniques and limitations.

ROCK6
 
#26 ·
I have a older mistress (Busse) that lives in my ruck, used often, hunting I still carry a Greco, camping /hiking, my old issue K-Bar, daily carry is a older blackjack Wasp and a newer strider, have a few other blades, from Fiskars thru buck and gerber, cold steel ect, all have been used if I didn't like how it acted or handled I traded it off. picked um up in odd places as well, picked up a Gerber guardian 2 serial #D0008S in panama during tha invasion, when I got back stateside I sent it back to Gerber to be sharpened, I was a pushdagger so no existing edge and they sent it back to me sharp and no questions asked second one is a BUCK Kalinga, was given to me by my old unit, beautiful and functional, just haven't got around to scuffing it up yet. replaced a older Gerber Parabellum Bolt action(blade snapped), with a older sog tomcat, which in turn got replaced with a sog Trident as a daily user. used and have a coupe of benchmades as well, fine tools. Knives are tools, tools break and get worn out, the better quality your tool, the longer your lifespan of it, because we all go past their recommended usage, and I know im not tha only one at the end of the day to snap a knife blade splitting a breastbone cause I was in a lil bit of a hurry to get back to camp before it got black dark...........
 
#28 ·
I have a couple custom knives from a maker that sells them for $300-400 depending on the specific model and how much you fancy it up. Secondary market for his knives starts lowball at $600 with most going for $700ish. For me they are great, I beat the crap out of them, use them hunting, camping, daily ranch chores etc. Day in day out they keep performing for me and yes I do think they are worth the money. At the same time I carry an Old Timer Stockmen (US made) in my pocket every day also. I've had it for over a decade and it also continues to soldier on.
Not really a stronger opinion one way or another I guess. I use what works for me and I'm happy with that.
 
#29 ·
Give me an old high carbon blade that will easily take and edge and I am happy. I have a Kershaw that I carried daily until it broke, and will return to service when its fixed. But I would not depend on a blade like that out in the woods. In my experience a blade that holds an edge for what seems like forever also tends to be brittle and a PITA to resharpen in a pinch. I would rather have a blade i need to hit with a stone every once in a while, than one I have to spend an hour or more to get sharp. At least with the former you can maintain without all the special stones, a piece of concrete will do the job.
 
#30 ·
Outside of the collectors, the utility of a custom knife vs. a high quality production knife is not all that substantial. There are real differences.

But unless being in the outdoors is a big part of your life, the cost difference might be decisive.

That said, there are a number of custom knives that really intrigue me. But for now, I like what I have.
 
#31 ·
Sometimes what you want simply isn't available as a production knife. Of course, that also takes into account having specific characteristics like blade shape, material, grind, handle material, full tang, etc. After a week of searching I've ordered to totally custom Damascus Skinner with a bone handle from a custom maker. The knife will be a user, but also an heirloom
 
#32 ·
I have an affection for knives. I truly enjoy custom knives and the artistry that goes into making them. Unfortunately Ive never found any that were "better" at any particular thing than what I would call a midprice (50-100) dollar knife.

There are lots of production knives in that midrange price that will do the same job as any hi dollar custom that I just dont bother carrying the customs. They remain in the collection to look at and enjoy.
 
#33 ·
The only custom knives I own are my Kukri's from Nepal and other knives I've gotten from there. The rest really vary in price. I have high dollars knives like Busse, Swamp Rat, Svord and Tops. Then I have Moras, The cheap but bargin valued Gil Hibben Rambo machete. I picked up the Condor Warlock on pre order befor it came out at a discounted price of 45 dollars. Busse makes great knives but had I known about the Kukri's from Nepal when I bought the Busse's I wouldn't own busse's as fantastic as they are.
 
#34 ·
I didn't understand the price points on knives until I started making them, and I'm not a Master Blade Smith by any stretch. One of the things that prohibits me from pursuing an idle dream to chuck it all and make knives for a living is the flipping' cost of tools and materials. I know several makers who sell at the $150-300 price point. You will see lots of their knives carried in OIF and OEF because they send them there for free, or folks buy them to send over, etc. (I know of a "club" of similar level makers who had an annual build for a military unit, and all of the knives were hi-quality in materials and craftsmanship.) This has fueled a consumer base, like cigars, zippos and bic razors before them.

But to set up a shop to do that costs over $10,000 or $20K depending on how many I want to do at a time. I've done the math. To make a single knife takes me 40 hours right now; I could cut that down with better equipment, so let's say I make 2 a week. Sell them at $200 a piece ... it doesn't add up. So I could spend $20K on still better equipment that allows me to crank out 10-15 a week; still have to sell them all though to make under the poverty line and never mind paying off my capital outlay. So I talked myself happily back to being a home hobby grinder ... who's knives are getting progressively far better than anything I see at shops or shows. But if it takes me a month to make, no one cares, and I have developed a skill that might be valuable one day.

The key to a good knife is not the label; its design first and foremost, you have to be able to use it, and not all designs work for everyone. Like a firearm, you have to hold it to know. Then its the steel itself and the heat treatment. After that its fit, finish, style ...
 
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