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Old 06-13-2017, 08:19 PM
SBK SBK is offline
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Originally Posted by jvtater View Post
Do you have proof it won't
You made the claim man, it's up to you to prove it if you want anyone to believe you. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that if multiple armed assailants want to do you harm they're not all just automatically going to run away if you manage to shoot one of them. To think otherwise is ridiculous, not to mention suicidal in some circumstances.
Old 06-13-2017, 08:36 PM
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Aubb Aubb is offline
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Originally Posted by wojo View Post
"beware the man with one gun - he probably knows how to use it...."

Not sure who wrote it, but still true...
Was maybe true 100 years a ago,not any more.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:32 PM
jvtater jvtater is offline
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Originally Posted by SBK View Post
You made the claim man, it's up to you to prove it if you want anyone to believe you. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that if multiple armed assailants want to do you harm they're not all just automatically going to run away if you manage to shoot one of them. To think otherwise is ridiculous, not to mention suicidal in some circumstances.
Ok. Well to think that your gonna come out on top of a one on multiples any other way is a pipe dream. If multiples are coming after you, a 9mm with 16 bullets isn't gonna do much better then a 6 gun. Most people who have the ability to spray and pray lots of lead tend to. So knowing you have a fewer number of shots will make you take that extra half a millisecond to make your shots count.

But the next time your confronted with multiple bad booger flickers. It's usually pretty easy to see what ones are the mouthy leader.

But as I stated before. It's more likely for a person to need a gun for defence against a four legged animal then against multiple bad guys.

When is the last time you heard someone single handedly whipping a group of bad guys ?

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Old 06-13-2017, 10:00 PM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvtater View Post
Ok. Well to think that your gonna come out on top of a one on multiples any other way is a pipe dream. If multiples are coming after you, a 9mm with 16 bullets isn't gonna do much better then a 6 gun. Most people who have the ability to spray and pray lots of lead tend to. So knowing you have a fewer number of shots will make you take that extra half a millisecond to make your shots count.

But the next time your confronted with multiple bad booger flickers. It's usually pretty easy to see what ones are the mouthy leader.

But as I stated before. It's more likely for a person to need a gun for defence against a four legged animal then against multiple bad guys.

When is the last time you heard someone single handedly whipping a group of bad guys ?

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I think the last time I read about that was a guy who stood down a truck fulls of outlaw bikers and a guy riding.

IIRC he was testing an FA Mini 14 or Ranch Rifle. I believe he fired half a mag as a warning and then 2 guys after in defense.

Somewhat a rarity I think, as the second sounded pretty hopped up and ill equiped to deal with the guy with the rifle.

The guy with the rifle was a pretty over size dude, too if I remember right.

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Old 06-14-2017, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jvtater View Post
But as I stated before. It's more likely for a person to need a gun for defence against a four legged animal then against multiple bad guys.
No it's not. You're more likely to get hit by lightning or killed by bees than you are a four legged animal. Even if you do get attacked by a four legged animal the most likely scenario is multiple domestic dogs, in which case you still may want more than six rounds at your disposal. Keep in mind that when I say multiple, I'm talking about more than one. Are you really claiming that more people get attacked by animals than get attacked by two or three people?
Old 06-14-2017, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SBK View Post
No it's not. You're more likely to get hit by lightning or killed by bees than you are a four legged animal. Even if you do get attacked by a four legged animal the most likely scenario is multiple domestic dogs, in which case you still may want more than six rounds at your disposal. Keep in mind that when I say multiple, I'm talking about more than one. Are you really claiming that more people get attacked by animals than get attacked by two or three people?
When I'm saying animals, your assuming only wild carnivores. Livestock also comes into my scenario.
And any animal attack I would much MUCH rather have a 357 over a 9mm any day. Even if it's a large pack of wild dogs.
The 9mm has done very little to impress me. Hell they shot the Pope with one several times and he survived very well.
My personal opinion I'd just assume pack a 22 as I would a 9

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Old 06-14-2017, 08:53 PM
Outpost75 Outpost75 is offline
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Reading the whole thread before posting, there is much I agree with and some that I don't.

If faced with multiple armed adversaries and all you have is a handgun, ANY handgun, then sorry for your bad luck, because the only hope you have is to use the handgun as a shoot and scott weapon to create a window for escape. Banish any Rambo fantasies because even if you could use your handgun to fight your way to a rifle, as a solo performer in this multiple threat engagement you will never live to shoot'em all, sorry wrong answer!

---- To try to bring the focus back to the OP I offer the following old article from Ed Harris which is cross-posted here with his permission:

.357 Rifle-Revolver Combo

The frontier concept of rifle and revolver both using the same common ammunition still makes sense. The combination of a fixed sight, double-action .357 revolver such as a Ruger SP101 for close-in personal defense and a Marlin 1894C with ghost ring peep sights, or optional and quick detachable optics for times when better accuracy, greater range, magazine capacity and rapidity of fire to 100 yards or so are needed, is hard to beat.

Back East here it is getting more difficult to find someplace to practice with a military caliber rifle. Sure you can get a .22 LR upper for your AR, but it just isn't the same. Most indoor ranges will let you use a rifle which fires handgun ammo, so my most-used center-fire rifle is a Marlin 1894C in .357 Magnum.

The .357 lever action is manageable by females and youngsters, it has low recoil and is fairly quiet when used with standard velocity lead .38 Special ammo. It is a fun camp gun which works great for small game, feral dogs and groundhogs. When firing .38 Special standard velocity non +P lead bullet ammo from a rifle, velocity remains subsonic, producing a mild report little louder than a .22, which has advantages for discreet garden varminting.

Its potential for home defense with .357 ammunition, is nothing to sneeze at. A .357 lever gun with proper ammunition is fully adequate for deer within 100 yards and with peep sights is more accurate on silhouette targets out to 200 yards than your average AK. But leverguns are familiar and nonthreatening in appearance, so they "don't scare the natives" as a "black rifle" often does.

New leverguns also cost less than so-called "black rifles." So use the money you save to buy a Dillon RL500B to load your own ammo! Used .357 leverguns sell for about 60% in stores of what a similar rifle costs new. Around here the Marlin Micro-Groove leverguns sell for about $100 less than a similar model with Ballard rifling, because people think that "Microgroove won't shoot lead." [Disinformation which keeps used gun prices down]. In my experience of some 30 years, the 1894C with Microgroove rifling shoots lead bullet ammo just fine, as long as you use ordinary standard velocity and +P .38 Special, but not lead bullet.357 Magnum loads.

Microgroove barrels do handle JACKETED bullet .357 Magnum loads very accurately. The 158-gr. softpoint is what you want to use for deer. But jacketed bullets are expensive and in reality you will use very few of them. In our house standard velocity 158-grain lead semi-wadcutters are the basic farm utility load for rifle and revolver, and are what you want to set up your RL500B to produce in quantity. Bulk Remington .358 diameter 158-grain semi-wadcutters in .38 Special brass with 3.5 grains of Bullseye approximate the velocity, accuracy and energy of factory standard velocity loads. Velocity is about 750 f.p.s. from a 3 inch revolver, 950 f.p.s. from an 18 inch carbine and 1030 f.p.s. from a 24 inch long barreled Cowboy Limited. Our ordinary lead plinking loads shoot into 4 inches at 100 yards from a rifle with iron sights. Jacketed soft-points will shave an inch off of that. If you buy components in bulk, your cost to reload brass that you already have with plinker loads is about 8 cents per pop. Cast your own bullets and save a nickel. Or add another dime if you insist on a jacketed slug. Ugh!

Cowboy assault rifle...

Mine rifle has a Trijicon Reflex II sight Model RX09 with A.R.M.S. #15Throw Lever Mount fitted into an XS Systems Lever Scout rail. There are less expensive sights, but using one on an LE buddy's M4 convinced me it was THE go-to solution for aging eyes. Money wasn't an issue. Quality beats the Chi-com and Russian imports hands down, Trijicon is American made and it costs no more than top-shelf Euro or US scopes.

Older XS mounts were dimensioned for Weaver bases. Fitting a military Picatinny base required deciding which cross-slot you want to locate your optic onto. You want the optical sight placed at the balance point of the rifle. When you have located the proper cross slot to position your sight, adjust the slot width and depth with a square Swiss needle file to enable the Picatinny mount crossbar to press-fit snugly into it. Retract the thumb clamps and slide the A.R.M.S. mount over the front of the rail. The rear mount clamp tightens against the angled sides of the rail only. You want no slop after you have fitted the crossbar slot depth and corners.

After fitting, the A.R.M.S. #15 thumb-lever mount offers quick disconnect with perfect return to zero. I can use either the tritium illuminated, no batteries required ever, combat optic or backup ghost ring peeps at will. I zero 158-grain magnum loads to coincide with the pointed top of the chevron reticle at 100 yards, and standard velocity .38s hit "on" at 50 yards. Holding the legs of the chevron tangent to the top of a 12-inch gong at 200 yards I can hit it with magnums every time. Placing the chevron across the shoulders I keep most rounds on an Army E silhouette out to at 300 if I do my part.

Works for me. YOUR mileage may vary.
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Old 06-16-2017, 04:27 PM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
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Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
Reading the whole thread before posting, there is much I agree with and some that I don't.

If faced with multiple armed adversaries and all you have is a handgun, ANY handgun, then sorry for your bad luck, because the only hope you have is to use the handgun as a shoot and scott weapon to create a window for escape. Banish any Rambo fantasies because even if you could use your handgun to fight your way to a rifle, as a solo performer in this multiple threat engagement you will never live to shoot'em all, sorry wrong answer!

---- To try to bring the focus back to the OP I offer the following old article from Ed Harris which is cross-posted here with his permission:

.357 Rifle-Revolver Combo

The frontier concept of rifle and revolver both using the same common ammunition still makes sense. The combination of a fixed sight, double-action .357 revolver such as a Ruger SP101 for close-in personal defense and a Marlin 1894C with ghost ring peep sights, or optional and quick detachable optics for times when better accuracy, greater range, magazine capacity and rapidity of fire to 100 yards or so are needed, is hard to beat.

Back East here it is getting more difficult to find someplace to practice with a military caliber rifle. Sure you can get a .22 LR upper for your AR, but it just isn't the same. Most indoor ranges will let you use a rifle which fires handgun ammo, so my most-used center-fire rifle is a Marlin 1894C in .357 Magnum.

The .357 lever action is manageable by females and youngsters, it has low recoil and is fairly quiet when used with standard velocity lead .38 Special ammo. It is a fun camp gun which works great for small game, feral dogs and groundhogs. When firing .38 Special standard velocity non +P lead bullet ammo from a rifle, velocity remains subsonic, producing a mild report little louder than a .22, which has advantages for discreet garden varminting.

Its potential for home defense with .357 ammunition, is nothing to sneeze at. A .357 lever gun with proper ammunition is fully adequate for deer within 100 yards and with peep sights is more accurate on silhouette targets out to 200 yards than your average AK. But leverguns are familiar and nonthreatening in appearance, so they "don't scare the natives" as a "black rifle" often does.

New leverguns also cost less than so-called "black rifles." So use the money you save to buy a Dillon RL500B to load your own ammo! Used .357 leverguns sell for about 60% in stores of what a similar rifle costs new. Around here the Marlin Micro-Groove leverguns sell for about $100 less than a similar model with Ballard rifling, because people think that "Microgroove won't shoot lead." [Disinformation which keeps used gun prices down]. In my experience of some 30 years, the 1894C with Microgroove rifling shoots lead bullet ammo just fine, as long as you use ordinary standard velocity and +P .38 Special, but not lead bullet.357 Magnum loads.

Microgroove barrels do handle JACKETED bullet .357 Magnum loads very accurately. The 158-gr. softpoint is what you want to use for deer. But jacketed bullets are expensive and in reality you will use very few of them. In our house standard velocity 158-grain lead semi-wadcutters are the basic farm utility load for rifle and revolver, and are what you want to set up your RL500B to produce in quantity. Bulk Remington .358 diameter 158-grain semi-wadcutters in .38 Special brass with 3.5 grains of Bullseye approximate the velocity, accuracy and energy of factory standard velocity loads. Velocity is about 750 f.p.s. from a 3 inch revolver, 950 f.p.s. from an 18 inch carbine and 1030 f.p.s. from a 24 inch long barreled Cowboy Limited. Our ordinary lead plinking loads shoot into 4 inches at 100 yards from a rifle with iron sights. Jacketed soft-points will shave an inch off of that. If you buy components in bulk, your cost to reload brass that you already have with plinker loads is about 8 cents per pop. Cast your own bullets and save a nickel. Or add another dime if you insist on a jacketed slug. Ugh!

Cowboy assault rifle...

Mine rifle has a Trijicon Reflex II sight Model RX09 with A.R.M.S. #15Throw Lever Mount fitted into an XS Systems Lever Scout rail. There are less expensive sights, but using one on an LE buddy's M4 convinced me it was THE go-to solution for aging eyes. Money wasn't an issue. Quality beats the Chi-com and Russian imports hands down, Trijicon is American made and it costs no more than top-shelf Euro or US scopes.

Older XS mounts were dimensioned for Weaver bases. Fitting a military Picatinny base required deciding which cross-slot you want to locate your optic onto. You want the optical sight placed at the balance point of the rifle. When you have located the proper cross slot to position your sight, adjust the slot width and depth with a square Swiss needle file to enable the Picatinny mount crossbar to press-fit snugly into it. Retract the thumb clamps and slide the A.R.M.S. mount over the front of the rail. The rear mount clamp tightens against the angled sides of the rail only. You want no slop after you have fitted the crossbar slot depth and corners.

After fitting, the A.R.M.S. #15 thumb-lever mount offers quick disconnect with perfect return to zero. I can use either the tritium illuminated, no batteries required ever, combat optic or backup ghost ring peeps at will. I zero 158-grain magnum loads to coincide with the pointed top of the chevron reticle at 100 yards, and standard velocity .38s hit "on" at 50 yards. Holding the legs of the chevron tangent to the top of a 12-inch gong at 200 yards I can hit it with magnums every time. Placing the chevron across the shoulders I keep most rounds on an Army E silhouette out to at 300 if I do my part.

Works for me. YOUR mileage may vary.
Nice combo, and could be a contender for the improbable and near impossible choice for the "one caliber" or one cartridge choice for a gun nut.

If you want to shoot lead at higher pressures, I believe it is very possible with cast, but I believe it has to be on the hard side.

A good source is Cast Boolits forum. Good bunch, and there are people there who have everything possible with cast down to a science.

I have heard that you must do a good job removing copper fouling to get the best out of cast, and then stick with it. Eventually, all my lower pressure guns will be cast bullets only.
Old 06-18-2017, 08:09 PM
CleanBore CleanBore is offline
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Ok here we go revolver vs semi-auto and caliber vs caliber. This will never die. There was a study done back in the ninety's on the best caliber bad guy stopper. The study was based on facts and real shootings not on opinion. The 357 came out on the top. The 357 is a proven round and is a very powerful round. One could argue the advantages of a semi-auto.Use what you are comfortable with and cross train on both semi-auto and revolver. I read an article on the matter at gunsgearandsurvival.com. The article encouraged the training of both types. Remember one factor, BULLET PLACEMENT.
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Old 06-18-2017, 11:31 PM
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The 357 is a excellent cartridge. But in todays world when people carry a gun in their pocket that holds 18 rounds I would think the situation out.and if this is a single action It would have to be all you have.
Old 06-19-2017, 11:17 AM
FirstSergeant FirstSergeant is offline
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My list of potential SHTF handguns....

Smith Model 66 with 2.5 inch barrel

Smith Model 66 with 4 inch barrel

Smith model 65 with 3 inch barrel
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:14 PM
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I just bought my first wheel gun after repeatedly putting it off as I do currently prefer my semi-autos. I am in Canada and waiting on the Leos to clear it for shipping. I chose a used S&W N-frame Model 28-2 in .357 as it could also handle the 38 special. Great pistol and build like a tank, sure it is heavy but I like beefy guns. It was a surplus Federal Bureau of Investigations pistol and is marked as such on the barrel, which was a deciding reason for me buying it. My only regret is I have to now stock up on two more calibers and that is going to take some cash.

Last edited by Izzit; 06-19-2017 at 06:30 PM.. Reason: Model correction
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