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Old 06-20-2017, 02:14 AM
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Dyraven Dyraven is offline
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Red and Blue separate? That'll work...
<snip>
Sorry, I'm way to cynical to think separation will be fireworks and free beer.
Sorry, But I have to disagree on every point. Red states will most likely adhere to the original U.S. Constitution, and none of the Red points you stated would conform to those ideas.

The Blue states would in all likelihood do the complete opposite of your statements. Although for a short time, they would live happily in their communist utopia. But as each begins to implode, from never-ending debt, unable to tax those too stoned and lazy to work, welfare and subsidies to the same lazy. Mexico repatriating Comifornia. The North-west tree huggers crying themselves to death... Eventually, with many conditions, the Red states will take them back adding those areas back to the fold.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:11 AM
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Sorry, But I have to disagree on every point. Red states will most likely adhere to the original U.S. Constitution, and none of the Red points you stated would conform to those ideas.

The Blue states would in all likelihood do the complete opposite of your statements. Although for a short time, they would live happily in their communist utopia. But as each begins to implode, from never-ending debt, unable to tax those too stoned and lazy to work, welfare and subsidies to the same lazy. Mexico repatriating Comifornia. The North-west tree huggers crying themselves to death... Eventually, with many conditions, the Red states will take them back adding those areas back to the fold.
You should read some suggestions from your fellow SB'rs on the role of government in the U.S. Much of it has nothing to do with the Constitution. You should also pay attention to the news - Blue States are more than willing to work their residents to death to pay for the State.

But forget that and answer this question: If the U.S. government returned entirely to the original intent and meaning of the Constitution as envisioned by the Founders, would you be willing to give up everything you think the government owes you?
Old 06-20-2017, 07:53 AM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is offline
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You should read some suggestions from your fellow SB'rs on the role of government in the U.S. Much of it has nothing to do with the Constitution. You should also pay attention to the news - Blue States are more than willing to work their residents to death to pay for the State.

But forget that and answer this question: If the U.S. government returned entirely to the original intent and meaning of the Constitution as envisioned by the Founders, would you be willing to give up everything you think the government owes you?
Absolutely. Even though I live partly on a SS pension, I'd happily starve knowing that the evil spells have finally been broken. I do not jest.

As for "fellow SB'rs"....we do have our share of Trolls, y'know. That who you mean?
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:28 AM
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Absolutely. Even though I live partly on a SS pension, I'd happily starve knowing that the evil spells have finally been broken. I do not jest.

As for "fellow SB'rs"....we do have our share of Trolls, y'know. That who you mean?
Thank you, but you're in the minority at SB.

I've read what most SB'rs say about their SS, Medicare, etc. They don't agree with you.
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:42 AM
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If I could trade my SS and Medicare for the requirement that voters be off ANY government assistance to be eligible vote, I'd trade it tomorrow. Buying votes through government checks is the greatest evil in this system
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:51 AM
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If I could trade my SS and Medicare for the requirement that voters be off ANY government assistance to be eligible vote, I'd trade it tomorrow. Buying votes through government checks is the greatest evil in this system
You're 50/50.

1) The eligibility to vote is found in the Constitution. Nothing more is needed than what is spelled out in that document.

2) There shouldn't be any government assistance at all for voters or non-voters. Assistance is the role and choice of private entities.
Old 06-20-2017, 10:11 AM
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You're 50/50.

1) The eligibility to vote is found in the Constitution. Nothing more is needed than what is spelled out in that document.

2) There shouldn't be any government assistance at all for voters or non-voters. Assistance is the role and choice of private entities.


that would achieve the same result so, sign me up
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:48 AM
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The military is getting half-trillion annual budgets, and hundreds of thousands of employees work industries on the government gravy train or military industrial complex, banksters getting bailouts, Fortune-500's enjoying tax loopholes, etc. These are all come down to government assistance for large corporations, and some of that might even trickle-down to their employees.

If you ignore that, and only get rid of foodstamps, housing assistance, etc. I can absolutely guarantee you that within a week or two of millions of Americans watching their children starve the pitchforks will come out, law and order will be totally overwhelmed, and we'll look like Somalia within months.

It's not the way any of us would like it, but it's reality of the 21st century. In the modern age, far less labor is needed in the economy. And that trend will grow from unskilled to semi-skilled and many professions also. Get rid of bread & circuses and see what happens. I bet not even the most hard-nosed Rethug would dare to do that, even if it meant sending alot more pork to the military industrial complex, banksters or tax-evading Fortune-500.

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You're 50/50.

1) The eligibility to vote is found in the Constitution. Nothing more is needed than what is spelled out in that document.

2) There shouldn't be any government assistance at all for voters or non-voters. Assistance is the role and choice of private entities.
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:57 AM
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The military is the ONE place where spending is justified by the Constitution (and common sense). But the others (Corporate and personal welfare and payouts) all cut off, I agree with you. Let the games begin
Old 06-20-2017, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by aramchek View Post
The military is getting half-trillion annual budgets, and hundreds of thousands of employees work industries on the government gravy train or military industrial complex, banksters getting bailouts, Fortune-500's enjoying tax loopholes, etc. These are all come down to government assistance for large corporations, and some of that might even trickle-down to their employees.

If you ignore that, and only get rid of foodstamps, housing assistance, etc. I can absolutely guarantee you that within a week or two of millions of Americans watching their children starve the pitchforks will come out, law and order will be totally overwhelmed, and we'll look like Somalia within months.

It's not the way any of us would like it, but it's reality of the 21st century. In the modern age, far less labor is needed in the economy. And that trend will grow from unskilled to semi-skilled and many professions also. Get rid of bread & circuses and see what happens. I bet not even the most hard-nosed Rethug would dare to do that, even if it meant sending alot more pork to the military industrial complex, banksters or tax-evading Fortune-500.
You still labor under the precept that the government MUST annually steal over $3 trillion from the producers and redistribute it according to a) Marx or b) Mussolini or the sun won't rise.

With the government limited to that which is outlined in the original Constitution (no 16th Amendment) and financed with only a tiny percentage of what they take in now, there are no lobbyists, no "banksters", no big military budget or no tax code to legally abuse. Remember, all of that is driven by the bloated pile of cash stolen by Washington - no money, no bad people.

With that in mind, please answer this question: If the United States returned to the original Constitution as written by the Founders, would you support it and abandon your demands for unlimited and unsustainable education, infrastructure and healthcare entirely paid for by other people? Would you make that trade, right now?

Please answer that question and only that question, Yes or No.
Old 06-20-2017, 11:05 AM
P-Dub P-Dub is offline
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But forget that and answer this question: If the U.S. government returned entirely to the original intent and meaning of the Constitution as envisioned by the Founders, would you be willing to give up everything you think the government owes you?
In a heartbeat. As a 35 year old Millennial I sincerely doubt Social Security will be around by the time I'm ready to retire at the ripe old age of 72.

I'd also love it if the income tax was eliminated. That 24% right there would take care of my retirement planning. Just stuffing a quarter of my income into a coffee can would be enough for me to get by for 25 years before I died.

The real problem that would occur is the massive numbers of unemployed people resulting from the shutdown of the myriad of government agencies. We can't just flip a switch and turn off all of the unconstitutional bureaucracy. It needs to be phased out over 50 years just like it was phased in starting in the 1960s.
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:09 AM
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The real problem that would occur is the massive numbers of unemployed people resulting from the shutdown of the myriad of government agencies. We can't just flip a switch and turn off all of the unconstitutional bureaucracy. It needs to be phased out over 50 years just like it was phased in starting in the 1960s.
Try pre-1860s. And yes we can. For thousands of years people survived and thrived without the government stealing and redistributing. Those unemployed with the death of the Blob State would find other work or migrate to another country who wants them.
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