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Old 06-17-2017, 01:10 AM
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Guntoteninfadel Guntoteninfadel is offline
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Personally I think its purely economic. Saudi Arabia has a wealth of oil, that we still buy. China sells us EVERYTHING. We seem to be able to over look some "issues" if the country that has those issues is key to our economic future.

Cuba has none of that. It is a beautiful country. The Cubans I have met seem to be quite industrious. Yes they do take the handout that is given them but then they seem to want to do something with it.

I am with BHU, I think we as a country should have a set of standards and stick to them. As the worlds largest economy I think we could carry some clout.
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Old 06-17-2017, 01:23 AM
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I think people ought to go to the thread "Venezuela Coming Apart" in the "Manmade and Natural Disasters" section and read post number 840 by Greg5791 who is living in Venezuela now and see what the Cuban influence and "advisors", unchecked by the US, has done to his country. Actually do yourself a favor and read a few of his previous posts. This is what happens when a "worker's paradise" ideology is sold to the unwashed masses
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Old 06-17-2017, 02:34 AM
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One thing about this bothers me, it sets I think a very bad example.
Regardless what you think about the deal, what's to stop the next president from restoring it.
IE.
OO- rolls it on
Trump- rolls it off
?- rolls it back on.

Imo, That is even worse.
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Old 06-17-2017, 07:01 AM
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The point is the Obama deal added on the continued propping up of Cuba and their continued influence on the area. This was a huge mistake. It is irrelevant why we have policies with other countries. What is relevant is one our best interest. We cannot make another country treat their own people right. We can only set the example with how we treat our people. We can no more make everything right in other countries than you can make everything right in other homes in your neighborhood. In either case being a good neighbor does not extend to acting in the detriment of your own household.

Trump did the right thing.
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Old 06-17-2017, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic Human Unit View Post
Also: Trump isn't rolling back everything. As things will stand, they will be able to sell us anything; even their rum and cigars. But we still will refuse to sell them anything.

Does this make sense? Aren't trade deficits supposed to be bad?
The trade deficits you speak of would be like a fart in in a hurricane.
Old 06-17-2017, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vile Papist View Post
The trade deficits you speak of would be like a fart in in a hurricane.
Not to Cuba.
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Old 06-17-2017, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlgoRhythms View Post
What exactly do we gain by re-introducing sanctions?

How is Cuba a threat to us in ANY way?
If you have to ask,you might be a Democrat!
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comdot View Post
Cuba is an unusual case.

Plaintiffs have nearly 6000 claims against Cuba for stolen property following the Cuban Revolution totaling more than 1.9 billion dollars. These are active claims monitored by the DOJ and in negotiation with the Cuban government.

Why in the heck would anyone do business or attempt to "exploit" Cuba when the perpetrator of these thefts (the Castros) are still in power?

When these guys die, go to prison or step down, they can be replaced by the people. When the new management takes over and deals with these open civil cases of stolen property, implements rule of law and contractual law for investments, then we can talk about investment by interested private parties.

Personally, I think post-Castro Cuba with U.S. investment will end up looking like Puerto Rico does today - broke with a steady stream of future welfare applicants heading to the U.S. mainland. But that's my opinion.
you mean like the chinese? I have deeds from a huge family property outside of beijing that was confiscated by the communists. It is probably worth 100 million.
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Old 06-18-2017, 01:49 AM
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i see another missed opportunity.
we could have opened it more and let corporate america go in and conquer cuba 'from the inside out'. have them dependent on us. make it an insidious free market coup and take advantage of all the other countries that have made cuba a tourist destination. they all pay and we collect.
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Old 06-18-2017, 01:41 PM
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The unraveling of America in this hyper partisan age is a sight to see. Good or bad is out the window and only my side/your side matters.
Someone in this thread literally posted that this was about human rights violations...now that **** is funny.
I wonder how those folks related to the dead from 9/11 feel about human rights violators?
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Old 06-18-2017, 01:49 PM
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You boys and girls need to talk to Greg about what the Cubans been up to in Venezuela before you start playing kissyface with 'em.
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Old 06-22-2017, 10:43 PM
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Actually Trump changed very little. You can still take a cruise ship there. You can go on a group tour. There are certain hotels Americans are not supposed to stay in.
Old 06-23-2017, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomArnold View Post
What I don't understand is why do we keep trying sanctions? Have they ever solved the problem (real or not, hidden or overt agenda) for the one imposing the sanctions? Not just the US in modern times, but ever. Sure, sanctions backed by a blockade may do something, but sanctions alone don't seem to ever help the "imposer" or the ones in power (the government or "the power behind the throne") of the "imposed upon" but only hurts the "regular" people there.

The "regular" people there are hurt but they seem to never revolt against their leaders to force the changes that could lead to lifting the sanctions. Instead the leaders use the sanctions to create and increase hatred towards the "imposer". They just say "look, we could be a happy, healthy, wealthy country if it weren't for those despicable Americans (or whoever the" imposer "is). Just hold on, be patient and we'll make things better. Just keep supporting me". The "regular" people seem to buy that line every time.

Sanctions haven't helped against Iran, they haven't helped against Cuba, they haven't helped against North Korea and they certainly aren't helping against Russia. They only stir the populace against the "imposer". With countries like Iran, North Korea and definitely Russia, can really backfire if the imposed" are strong enough or think they are or have a potential tool that can make a weak one a possible threat (think EMP and such) that they decide to fight back and not simply take the spanking quietly. Sanctions seem to be not even as effective as a spanking. At least with a spanking your bottom is stinging to remind you of the consequences of the "bad thing" you did.

I'm not necessarily smart enough to put forward an alternative that would be more effective. It just seems that sanctions alone aren't a solution that works the way they should - at least not the way that our handlers, pardon me I mean benevolent leaders, have sold the idea of sanctions to us.
They do work. Probably have with Cuba. They worked with Iran until Obama gave away the store. They would probably work with NK if we actually held to them.
Old 06-23-2017, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PalmettoTree View Post
The point is the Obama deal added on the continued propping up of Cuba and their continued influence on the area. This was a huge mistake. It is irrelevant why we have policies with other countries. What is relevant is one our best interest. We cannot make another country treat their own people right. We can only set the example with how we treat our people. We can no more make everything right in other countries than you can make everything right in other homes in your neighborhood. In either case being a good neighbor does not extend to acting in the detriment of your own household.

Trump did the right thing.
The ruling generation coming on line after Castro is even more barbaric than what Castro was. Military commanders who committed many war crimes in south Africa during the 80s and 90s. For every dollar that would leak down to the peasants of Cuba $10 would go into these guys pockets. I see no reason to reward them at this point in time.
Old 06-23-2017, 01:08 PM
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Cuba allows tourists from many other countries. They buy goods from many other countries.

The U.S. is not the only importer/exporter of goods to and from Cuba.
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