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Old 01-10-2017, 09:33 PM
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Thanks for that information. Very useful. My pack contains the following items related to food, water and procurement thereof: 7 days of food at about 2,400 calories per day (I might now up that to 3,300); 5 liters of water; water filter; fishing gear; 22LR survival rifle; vegetable seeds; guitar strings (for snares). Assuming I could escape the chaos of suburbia and find water but not food, I would last however long it takes to starve to death plus 7 days. I've debated if it makes sense to bring the rifle, because even if my hunting is extremely successful, ammo will run out. Maybe I should bring it for the same reason that I bring 7 days of food--to buy time in hope of finding a more sustainable solution. I realized early on in my preparing that I would have to rely heavily on acorns. I look at my gear and my plan as a way to give myself a better-than-zero chance of survival, and I don't think I'm delusional about how much better.

For those of you who feel that you have the ability to survive long-term under a wide range of circumstances: What list of things do you think makes the difference between those who can survive and those who can't?
The only successful bugout is one that gets you to a place already set up for basic homesteading.

Heading into the woods as a survival plan is just making it hard to find the gear on your dead body later. Bugging out always requires a BOL that comes with a roof, cleared land for agriculture, existing food stores, and ownership/permission to be there. You can have cache areas and rest locations along the way, but if you don't have a proper livable location then just stay at home.

Living off the land is a fools errand. Those that can barely pull it off long term already have their book deals and cable channel shows.

Those that don't have a proper BOL had better quit messing around with Rambo gear and go get a BOL. Buy it or get permission from someone else to use it during emergencies. Then go get it ready.

Your BOB is to get you from your current home to your BOL. Exactly what you need to get there and absolutely nothing else.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:36 AM
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I've offered to several friends of mine to sign a 5 year lease on 5 acres on my property and I'll ether provide materials for a 500 sq ft hunting cabin, (with basic solar, propane, wood stove, etc) or that % of a larger cabin if they want larger.

Their only "rent" would be assembly (it's not that hard)
I was going to help, but with my declining health that part is now off the table.
If you don't know someone like me..... you should.

They'd have unrestricted access to "their cabin" for hunting, vacationing, bug out, etc. For 5 years by contract (and reasonably, for the few I've made the offer to for life.)
As well as limited access to the 75 acres for wood harvesting and damn near unlimited recreationally.

To say nothing of my gardens and fruit trees when they come of age.


I'm still waiting for the first one to take me up on it.

People talk, rarely do.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:56 AM
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Like most long time preppers it took me a lot of years to buy a decent rural BOL.

But I ended up getting free use offers from several types of rural folk.

First was hunting and fishing leases. I'd book a seasonal lease and I'd devote a half day of the trip to do some minor maintenance. Fix a fence gate, a screen door, fix the floating dock, replace a water spigot that leaked. Nothing major. It went unnoticed at first because I didn't mention it, but when they finally did I would say that's what hunters should be doing at remote places to ensure everyone has a working place to go every year. Then I'd reel off the other jobs I already did there. I was instantly their favorite customer. Then I got rental discounts for them being appreciative and later they would offer a free rental if I took on a middling job they needed done. Over the years I eventually ended up with gate and door keys with the offer to visit anytime it was empty. Had a whole keyring for different places.

Later I turned to pest hunting. Here it happens to be feral hog hunting. Other places it could be groundhogs (great marksmanship training). Coyotes are a pest everywhere and take a bit of all-around hunting/shooting/tracking skill. Farmers were plenty happy to let me hunt feral hog. Most would join and help out after the hunt, as well as offer a modest bounty of home grown produce. Over time I became like very extended family to them. Butchering and burning a dozen feral hog is a bonding experience. Again, more gate keys and hearty offers to visit anytime.

These rural types will see me differently than the typical Golden Horde type. They may realize I need help but they also know that my presence has proven value to them. I can bring in food and help maintain their property. They well know I'm good for defensive protection too. They see me as an asset and useful set of extra eyes and hands. I'm not some city slicker crying at the gate for a handout.

I'm not saying this will work for everyone. I am saying that the general concept could be retailored for your situation and region. Bond with certain rural groups in the good times as either a helper or polite paying customer they get to know very closely. Think of it as rural networking. It definitely gives you a process to get a rural BOL option long before you can pay for a good rural place of your own.

It might work on a rural farm Bed and Breakfast annual vacation with your wife or becoming pals with a fish and game warden you ask to hire out as a day guide. Game wardens have off days and like extra income as much as any other cop does.

Get an outdoor rural hobby and figure out how to turn it to a local's benefit beyond just yours. Then put enough time and effort into it that the local sees you as almost one of his crowd.

At worst it will likely keep you from being shot on the spot at their gate when SHTF.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Try this:
Get you an offgrid place, stocked like mine, and you'll find that most of the things that used to bother you, or drive you crazy...
Just don't matter all that much anymore.

Seriously, I see it in my friends who haven't broken from the rat race.
I mostly come here now for "headline news", entertainment (need a good bit when you have to sit down as much as me) and the few informative threads by "the real practicioners"

Just really don't see much impacting my little remote, offgrid slice of heaven. (Or, if it does....everywhere else is toast too.)

Amen, brother! Let's separate the fantasy dreamers from the pragmatists. One's perspective changes after he makes the leap and does it for real and stops thinking about a zombie apacolypse. LOL

You and I, while things may never be easy, at least we can be in peace.

.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:31 PM
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Nomad, 2nd and IamZeke, thanks for your advice.

Here's my thinking: It seems to me that what you're suggesting works in areas that are away from big population centers. But I live in NJ, the most densely populated state. I believe that in a worst case, even rural areas of NJ would eventually be overrun by people seeking resources. It would probably be war here until the population decreased to some lower number. I'd like to avoid that scene if possible. So, I believe that for me, a BOL would have to be well outside of NJ. And given that roads will become parking lots here in an emergency of the proportions we're considering, I wouldn't be able to count on road transportation to get anywhere. Therefore, my plan is to be as self-reliant as possible with what I can carry on my back, and stick to routes through wooded areas that keep me away from people as much as possible. I'm guessing that early on, it would be possible to travel this way, as most people don't venture into the woods here in suburbia, and will probably do so only after they have expended available, conventional resources.

However, you're making it clear that I do need a destination--a place to homestead. I've thought about it, but have made no plans. I need to start thinking in that direction.

I understand that the odds are against me. But unless I were to move out of state now, it's what I face. I think I'm still young enough and in good enough shape to consider an extended "backpacking trip", but I'm past my peak in terms of hireability in my field of work. So, pulling up stakes now would mean being prepared to leave the rat race now.
Old 01-11-2017, 12:56 PM
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So, pulling up stakes now would mean being prepared to leave the rat race now.[/QUOTE]

So, how about the*lower and slower* state? Light population for that area, lots of rural, off the usual traffic routes?
Old 01-11-2017, 01:10 PM
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Seriously, can anyone suggest a resource, online or otherwise, for working and riveting copper sheet? Any help would be appreciated!
Old 01-11-2017, 01:15 PM
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A mountain bike. Best way to get to your BOL, more importantly, best way to both actively patrol and commute to and from road blocks, op/lp. Available everywhere, including Craigs list and garage sales!
Old 01-11-2017, 01:38 PM
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Readiness? Right now I'm screwed b/c we are in the middle of moving. But in a few months we will be back to normal. Which is to say; as prepared as we are going to be.
Old 01-11-2017, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_C View Post
... For those of you who feel that you have the ability to survive long-term under a wide range of circumstances: What list of things do you think makes the difference between those who can survive and those who can't?
We selected a region that is not known for being drought-prone.

We selected a region that has been experiencing regional economic depression for the past 40 years. [I can fit right in and be 'middle-class' on $15k/year income here. Whereas in many other areas like my home state of California, on my pension we would be destitute. Here we are middle class.]

EMP proof house.

Off-grid on solar-power [wind and hydro power systems work good too]

Low cost land, low taxes, low COL [I got we bought land for under $400/acre, we built a large house on 150 acres of land and our annual taxes are well under $1000/year]

Produce all of your food. We are at around 95% of this goal, have been for a few years. We way over produce some things, but some other things are lacking. We barter among locals to work it all out.

Produce some of your energy needs. We produce our heating fuel. Our home is on solar-power. We just shifted to a plug-in vehicle that we are charging off our solar-power.

We have constitutional Open Carry of firearms, we have constitutional Concealed Carry of firearms. For decades this state has been among the top ten for pro-gun rights. The only weakness on gun rights, is we are not 'castle doctrine' this state gives the DA some discretion on the matter.

We have a very good local network of like-minded folks. Lots of hunters, fishermen, trappers, foragers, and other off-grid market farmers like me.
Old 01-11-2017, 10:06 PM
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****Moderator Note****

And another thread has had to have the personal argument scrubbed out of it. If you have nothing better to do than kicking sand in people's peanut butter sandwiches then you seriously have nothing to do. Stop the personal arguments. Take it to pm, take it to the DS, or by some miracle just stop it.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_C View Post
.

I understand that the odds are against me. But unless I were to move out of state now, it's what I face. I think I'm still young enough and in good enough shape to consider an extended "backpacking trip", but I'm past my peak in terms of hireability in my field of work. So, pulling up stakes now would mean being prepared to leave the rat race now.
I grew up on the Gulf coast.

Now I'm hundreds of miles away.
Other than population density, higher self sufficiency, and no hurricanes.... I could never afford the acreage I have here.

Life's about choices. Make yours.
(And many people change careers )
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
I grew up on the Gulf coast.

Now I'm hundreds of miles away.
Other than population density, higher self sufficiency, and no hurricanes.... I could never afford the acreage I have here.

Life's about choices. Make yours.
(And many people change careers )
I am from California. For survival I migrated to New England after I retired.

I felt that I had to select a location with a higher chance of survival, with low population-density, more self-sufficiency, better forage, etc.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Like most long time preppers it took me a lot of years to buy a decent rural BOL.

But I ended up getting free use offers from several types of rural folk.

First was hunting and fishing leases. I'd book a seasonal lease and I'd devote a half day of the trip to do some minor maintenance. Fix a fence gate, a screen door, fix the floating dock, replace a water spigot that leaked. Nothing major. It went unnoticed at first because I didn't mention it, but when they finally did I would say that's what hunters should be doing at remote places to ensure everyone has a working place to go every year. Then I'd reel off the other jobs I already did there. I was instantly their favorite customer. Then I got rental discounts for them being appreciative and later they would offer a free rental if I took on a middling job they needed done. Over the years I eventually ended up with gate and door keys with the offer to visit anytime it was empty. Had a whole keyring for different places.

Later I turned to pest hunting. Here it happens to be feral hog hunting. Other places it could be groundhogs (great marksmanship training). Coyotes are a pest everywhere and take a bit of all-around hunting/shooting/tracking skill. Farmers were plenty happy to let me hunt feral hog. Most would join and help out after the hunt, as well as offer a modest bounty of home grown produce. Over time I became like very extended family to them. Butchering and burning a dozen feral hog is a bonding experience. Again, more gate keys and hearty offers to visit anytime.

These rural types will see me differently than the typical Golden Horde type. They may realize I need help but they also know that my presence has proven value to them. I can bring in food and help maintain their property. They well know I'm good for defensive protection too. They see me as an asset and useful set of extra eyes and hands. I'm not some city slicker crying at the gate for a handout.

I'm not saying this will work for everyone. I am saying that the general concept could be retailored for your situation and region. Bond with certain rural groups in the good times as either a helper or polite paying customer they get to know very closely. Think of it as rural networking. It definitely gives you a process to get a rural BOL option long before you can pay for a good rural place of your own.

It might work on a rural farm Bed and Breakfast annual vacation with your wife or becoming pals with a fish and game warden you ask to hire out as a day guide. Game wardens have off days and like extra income as much as any other cop does.

Get an outdoor rural hobby and figure out how to turn it to a local's benefit beyond just yours. Then put enough time and effort into it that the local sees you as almost one of his crowd.

At worst it will likely keep you from being shot on the spot at their gate when SHTF.
You're a good person and rural people understand that. You scratch my back and I will scratch yours. It is this simple payment plan that used to make the world work. Nowadays rural folk are few (% wise) and city folk are suspicious of everything.
Old 01-11-2017, 11:55 PM
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I am from California. For survival I migrated to New England after I retired.

I felt that I had to select a location with a higher chance of survival, with low population-density, more self-sufficiency, better forage, etc.
Something I'd like to point out I believe applies to both of us (correct me if I'm wrong)

But our choices resulted in an improved lifestyle NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.

Baring the excess cash for a "summer and winter home" (which my Airstream somewhat provides) my choices not only increase "survivability" but give me a perfered lifestyle NOW.


I don't "live in fear" I live the life I want (as much as my physical issues allow.)
I believe this to be an important distinction as "no man knows the day or the hour."
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Something I'd like to point out I believe applies to both of us (correct me if I'm wrong)

But our choices resulted in an improved lifestyle NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.

Baring the excess cash for a "summer and winter home" (which my Airstream somewhat provides) my choices not only increase "survivability" but give me a perfered lifestyle NOW.


I don't "live in fear" I live the life I want (as much as my physical issues allow.)
I believe this to be an important distinction as "no man knows the day or the hour."
I agree.

I live a much better lifestyle now, because I migrated.

And because I migrated, I believe that I now stand a far better chance of thriving through most SHTF scenarios.
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmo1037 View Post
Anyone else here almost hope for a 2 or 3 month SHTF event?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Why ON EARTH!?!
It's a matter of extreme frustration.

The trend for going on 3/4 of a century has been to dependence, liberal agendas masquerading as tolerance yet really reverse repression, spin pretending to be news, insane government fiat spending with nothing really built with it, microspecialization and niche evolution in our lives, and a huge laundry list of utterly stupid trends. Hell, people are now famous for just being famous. Why does a Khardashian rate more global respect than Stephen Hawking?

We can see the car driving off the cliff and the monkey behind the wheel refusing to pump the brakes.

At a certain point we try to rationalize the inevitability by hoping for a controlled crash instead of a fireball rolling down the mountainside.

Cmo1037 doesn't really want the crash. He just wants the monkey to pump the brakes. But the monkey just screeches and cackles madly.

Weird thoughts run through your mind when you realize you are living in Jethro Tull's Locomotive Breath song.

Best to not voice those thoughts too loudly and also be a bit tolerant when you hear others unable to contain them.
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Old Today, 01:31 PM
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Default How Prepared are You?

Here is the scenario... an EMP hits. the world as we know it ceases to exist. No more grocery store. No more gas station. No more pharmacy. What you have is what you have. You are not getting any more food that you don't hunt or harvest. You arent getting anymore fuel unless you make it. You are either at your house bugging in or you are at your bug out location, whichever gives you the best chance of survival.

Things to consider...
1) Shelter. Does it protect you from all weather in your area? (ie can you keep it warm?). The cold will be the big killer during the winter in areas where it gets below freezing at night. How many months worth of wood/fuel do you have stocked and can you get make more? (ie cut down and harvest more trees). for someone on the east coast who lives in the woods this will be doable. If you live in the empty plains of Kansas and Eastern CO do you have a renewable heat source?

2) Food. How many months of food do you have stocked? Can you harvest or hunt more? Do you have livestock/garden/fish pond/etc?

3) Water. How many gallons do you have stocked? Can you get more from a creek or well? Remember that your electric well pump will no longer work, so you will need an alternative way to bring water up from your well.

4) Health. Is your life dependent on meds? Can you make more or is what you have stocked all that you will ever have?

5) Security. Do you have the means to defend yourself if need be?

I think survival can be looked at from these 5 fundamental areas. We are only as strong as our weakest link. If someone only has one month's worth of food and no means to hunt/harvest/grow more than they only have a month to live. It doesnt matter if you have an endless supply of water and wood without food you will die. The same can be said for if someone has no means to heat their shelter than they will only be able to survive the summer months. The winter will inevitably kill them.

So How long will you survive? 1 month/ 1 year/ etc?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was talking to a family member that lives in a very rural area. He owns 77 acres and they run a granola business out of their home. Needless to say they have 100s of pounds of granola on hand at any given time and the raw ingredients to make 100s more. They have chickens as well as a substantial garden and they make their own maple syrup. They also have a wood burning fireplace and a wood burning stove. He was telling me how prepared he was and he is right. He is way more prepared than most preppers except that his only source of water on the property comes from a 400ft deep well and he has no way to get to that water without electricity. He does have a generator but he doesn't keep enough fuel on hand to last more than a couple weeks and in the event of an EMP it probably wouldn't work. This conversation got him thinking.
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Old Today, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlin94 View Post
So How long will you survive? 1 month/ 1 year/ etc?
I will SURVIVE ect

I will survive to the end of my natural life... 65-75... hopefully longer.

My Question is how COMFORTABLE will I be?
That is what I work towards.

1-5 on your list are covered.
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