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Most reliable rifle?

63K views 122 replies 70 participants last post by  MitchSnider 
#1 ·
In another thread the question of rifle reliablity came up. And while nothing is 100% reliable except God, it made me wonder about other's opinions on rifle reliablity.

While I have fired tens of thousands of rounds from nearly every standard military shoulder arm of the 20th century, I recognize that our collective experience is far more than my individual experience.

I've seen multiple failures with a variety of bolt actions.

The AK family have an excellent reputation. I have never had a failure with one, but have probably only put 10,000 rounds through them. So my experience is not exhaustive.

My pick for the most reliable rifle is the humble type 45 or 56 SKS in the original configuration. The worst malfunction I have ever seen in them is a slam fire. Which means that the weapon was still perfectly useable for self defense.

I have seen these rifles so abused that they are LITERALLY rusted shut. Without replacing any parts, I had the one I picked up in working order inside of 5 minutes.

So my question is - what stock firearm is the most reliable in your experience? Not the tricked out after market cob job bubba special, but what factory made or military issue arm is flat out going to go bang every time?
 
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#48 ·
One is none 2 is one.

This is term that has been floating around the survival world for a long time. It's a good term. Everything breaks over time from wear & use. Either you need to have 2 of the same rifles to use one as parts or you need to have additional replacement parts for every rifle you own.

Repair parts are easier for find for comon military style rifles. If you own an an AK you should have either another AK or an AK parts set to go with it. The parts set has all the small (& large) parts you need.

AR15 - tons of part available, I would recommend a lower parts kit + a complete bolt assembly, additional extractors, extractor springs, firing pins, etc.
There are parts kits out there for the FAL (more expensive) but available. SKS - backup parts are out there. Check out www.buymilsurp.com I would recommend an additional firing pin, trigger group, and bolt assembly.
M1 & M14 - expensive but readily availble.

Singles shot, lever actions, pump, or bolt action rifles - better buy an extra rifle in the same caliber. Military style rifles were designed from the begining for hard use and rapid fire. They were also designed to be worked on by those with 5th grade educations.

Whatever you run you need to have either a backup rifle or backup parts.
 
#50 ·
My pick for the most reliable rifle is the humble type 45 or 56 SKS in the original configuration. The worst malfunction I have ever seen in them is a slam fire. Which means that the weapon was still perfectly useable for self defense.

I have seen these rifles so abused that they are LITERALLY rusted shut. Without replacing any parts, I had the one I picked up in working order inside of 5 minutes.
I got a question for you. You say you've only seen slam fires with SKSs, is that something that occurs often or vary rare. I know M1As have the possibility of slam fires but never experienced it in mine. So I'm assuming it's few and far between?
 
#51 ·
Yes - few and far between, the usual cause is dirt or hard grease inside the bolt. The same thing can happen if a firing pin that is too long is installed or sometimes if the rifle ammo is loaded with pistol primers. I mentioned it not because the SKS is in any way unreliable but because it was the worst thing I've seen one do and in the grand scheme of things, that isn't really a huge malfunction.

I've had slam fires with a number of different rifles over the years most spectacularly with a MAS49/56 that emptied a magazine of 308 and ended up near vertical but that was a converted rifle not an as issued 7.5 mm version.
 
#62 ·
Nope. I've had Mauser actions fail too. Teh worst was a Steyr in 30-06 that would not feed or eject (yes a bolt action rifle) because the bolt had slid over a partially fed cartridge with its nose in the chamber and base in the magazine with the bolt trying to ride over the middle. In the maine woods 15 miles off pavement near a bear bait I had to pry it open with a car key.... I later took that rifle to Namibia and killed an Impala with it but I have never trusted it since.
 
#59 ·
Almost dead on reliability? I would say either a Mauser 98, or a 1903 Springfield
Both have almost the same actions.
They are both supremely reliable, and dead on accurate.
I believe the 1903 is slightly more accurate with the proper ammunition. There was a Battle in WWI when the Germans were horrified to learn that the Marines were picking them off at 8-900 yards.
That was using M1 ball though, and if you can find it, you can't afford it. M2 ball was developed as a replacement because the M1 ball had so much range that it made many military firing ranges unsafe.
The M1 was a 172 grain round with a 9 degree boat tail.
 
#61 ·
I have to say my Ak(S)47 has never failed me, neither has my SKS. I have a 1942 BSA No.1MkIII , a 1944 Lithgow No.1MkIII ,and a 1950 Longbranch No.4Mk1*, all in .303 British that have never failed me. I have a Pedersoli 1762 Grice second land pattern musket that has never failed. I could say the same for my 1861 Springfield rifled musket and my 1853 Enfield rifled musket. I have a Pedersoli Blue Ridge squirrel gun that is flawless. The worst gun I EVER owned was a Jennings J22 pistol. I got so fed up with it, I smashed it with a sledge hammer and pitched it out the window of my Cessna over the gulf of Mexico on a flight to Florida ! Ha, Ha, Ha! TP
 
#63 ·
I have to say my Ak(S)47 has never failed me, neither has my SKS. I have a 1942 BSA No.1MkIII , a 1944 Lithgow No.1MkIII ,and a 1950 Longbranch No.4Mk1*, all in .303 British that have never failed me. I have a Pedersoli 1762 Grice second land pattern musket that has never failed. I could say the same for my 1861 Springfield rifled musket and my 1853 Enfield rifled musket. I have a Pedersoli Blue Ridge squirrel gun that is flawless.
I can't imagine any musket firing 100% of the time. I've had flintlocks and percussion guns fail to fire multiple times. That is why the military no longer uses them. I've never had a 209 primed inline fail to go bang, but I've only put several hundred shots through mine and that isn't much of a test.
 
#64 ·
Couple points. First, the hubble space telescope is perfectly reliable if perfectly maintained, doesn't make it a reliable design. What makes a "reliable design" is the ability to function under less than ideal circumstances.

I'll go with whoever said Mauser. I'll go further to specify a mil-spec mauser, although any of the millions of remington's, rugers and winchester's are supremely reliable, but if i were to have to go on a "lewis & clark" type trip across the country or take to the woods for a couple years of guerrilla warfare i would find a surplus mauser in unused condition if reliability were my singular priority.
 
#66 ·
Century Arms AK47

I have owned this rifle for about 4 years and run a couple thousand rounds through it, Wolf and Tiger, So far I have not had any problems. With the red dot scope I am able to maintain about a 2inch pattern at 50 yards but dont do as well at 100 yards; around 3 inch pattern but Im prolly not the best shot around either but I dont want to be on the other end lol.Again; as far as reliability goes it has not failed.
My 2 cents
TXak
 
#76 ·
+1. Since you have to jump thru like a 1000 hoops to buy an AR/AK up here (never mind a FAL, that's on the prohibited list here - too bad I loved it when it was my issued weapon in 85/86), and buying new firearms is not in the budget (child support to ex eats that up, day to day expenses, investing and prepping with current wife eats up the rest), my two main "go to" rifles are my Winchester 94 (30-30) and my Winchester 9422M (.22 magnum). Not ideal, but can throw out a decent amount of lead in a pinch if I had to defend myself, and they have put meat on the table.

My .303 Lee Enfield, 20 gauge shotgun and .22 bolt action should take care of the most of the hunting.....

I guess lever actions have been called the "poor man's battle rifle" by some, but I love it and am good with them, and in the end being good with them should give me an edge....

I guess its really all in the eye of the beholder
 
#73 ·
I'm gonna come out and say it:


Any semi-auto action that has been in more or less consistent production for at least 25 years is probably pretty reliable by now. Certain actions are especially well known to running in adverse conditions, but under normal conditions with regular cleaning......
 
#82 ·
I came to this forum after doing a search for a reliable rifle. I have been doing a lot of hard looking at Jeff Cooper’s concept of the scout rifle purely from a ‘single rifle’ or ‘general purpose rifle’ and survivalist situation. Not necessarily the best for any one thing (distance or sniping or hunting or home defense) but a dependable piece that can do all these things well, if not the best. Ruger just came out with a scout rifle and I had been looking really hard at bolt actions. The problem is, even at Gunsite on their 270 rifle course of around a thousand rounds, nothing is getting through without malfunctions. I still like Cooper’s ideas but research is just not proving out what would seem to be obvious intuitively, a bolt action being the utmost in reliability.

I own two AR-15 rifles. The first is an Olympic Arms kit that I have had for 25 years with around 3 cases of ammo through it without a single issue. I just bought a new Law Enforcement Colt model about 3 years ago when they let us purchase our own rifles for patrol (in addition to the issued Rem 870 pump 12 ga but it had to be a Colt or RockRiver only, my Olympic was out) and the first day on the range I had the rifle completely lock up on me and was out of commission. It was the cheap butt crud ammunition reloads that our Sheriff’s Office purchased from some backwater Miami dealer and blew a primer back through the bolt and seized it up good. I was using a continuously larger and heavier hammer on a brass (squib) rod on the back inside of the bolt and hammered the crud out of it and finally had it free about an hour later. Lots of little pieces of brass from the primer falling out that had wedged the bolt. I have only used ‘quality’ ammo ever since and have never had another problem with it. I even have a 10’ barrel NFA stamp on a Rock River Arms upper for the rifle and about a thousand rounds through both uppers now with no problems after that first batch of crappy ammo. I have never had an actual parts breakage on either AR15 platform and they are easily converted to full auto if necessary in a SHTF scenario (homemade Lightning Link). Keep the weapon ‘reasonably’ clean and maintained, use ‘quality’ ammo and magazines, and I have no problem depending on the ‘black rifle’.

I have a Springfield M6 survival rifle in stainless over/under 22lr and .410 that I have in my survival pack that I keep in the airplane when flying cross country trips. From a reliability standpoint, I don’t see how anything could break on that single action breach gun. It is single shot so you won’t ‘waste’ a lot of ammo in a survival scenario so it is great to carry for hunting and survival as you can carry literally thousands of rounds of 22lr ammunition and it would be my choice to keep folded on the outside of my pack as the primary food or small game weapon. But it is not so good for a survival situation for self-defense against the 2-legged beasts, .410 shotgun aside as it is still only one shot. This would negate Cooper’s single rifle or scout rifle concept. A .22lr is just such to good an idea for taking small game for the survivalist to leave behind or pass up.

For last ditch, close-in, self defense you are ALWAYS going to have that Colt 1911 .45 on your hip to transition to anyway, so is a perfect lack of malfunction record really such an all eliminating consideration? I think still yes if we can find one in Mr. Cooper’s general purpose rifle.

I want a minimum parts counts Cooper Scout Rifle that is basically so rugged that it is impossible to malfunction. If a bad round is encountered, it can clear it easily and quickly (unlike my blown primer in the bolt scenario). So far that sounds like a single loader breach action but this is not acceptable for defense as it needs to be able to fire multiple rounds quickly. Now we might be talking bolt action but Ruger uses ‘investment casting’ poured metal instead of a solid forged piece of steel (Savage scout is out as a two piece bolt with a history of broken bolt pins) and even Cooper’s ‘blessed’ Styer Scout has had a lot of ‘NO BANG’ (light firing pin hits) history when the trigger is pulled and other issues. I also want the .308 as Cooper indicated for its stopping power for larger animals and the ability for consistent MOA shots out to 300 yards.

So until someone can point out to me that ultimate scout rifle I will still carry my Springfield M6 folded over and strapped to my pack, the Colt 1911 .45 on my hip, and the Colt AR-15 in my hand/slung combo. Find me that perfect, zero malfunction scout rifle and I will replace the AR in that list. Is there a 22lr over .308 rifle combo over .12 gauge that is 99.9999% reliable made of solid one piece forged parts and still fits the Cooper Scout rifle criteria? Make one dang it! The only thing I feel that I may need to ‘justify’ to this group is the AR choice. It is mine for many of the same reasons as the military. You can carry a lot more rounds than heavier cartridges and still take down a man/large game. You can convert to full auto easily in an emergency SHTF meltdown. Plenty of parts available, even though in 25 years of shooting them I have had nothing break to need replacing yet. It is short, easy to carry, Colt has worked out all the bugs over the last several decades now, and I already have 2 of them. (Besides carrying a lot of ammo I did not pick the AK because of accuracy at the scout rifle 300+ yard needs. I would rather take out whatever I need to at a looooong distance if I can).

Just a couple of other things I noted from reading this whole posting. One is that I actually have had rounds ‘delay fire’. I had some Glaser Safety Slugs in .380 (at over $2.50 a bullet) that had stored in my gun cabinet for about 3 years and went out to the range and pulled the trigger and a light ‘pop’ was heard (the primer), followed by a sizzling sound for about 1 second, followed by the round being finally fired. I shot up the rest of them (only had a dozen) and all but 2 did the same thing! So it is possible. I have also fired some old WWII era .45 ammo that you could actually watch the actually bullet as it flew through the air and fall to the dirt 20 feet away.

We had Uzi’s on our SWAT team when I first started on the teams 23 years ago these things seemed fairly indestructible. We never had one malfunction and you could even put the barrel in upside down and it would still shoot (albeit low) as well as fill the thing up with sand and still goes bang! Nice heavy bolt blowback design (no gas to rely on). But it is not good for that 300 yard distance MOA that I am looking for (and the open bolt design is counter intuitive for reliability but was done for cooling as I recall).

The HK/91 or G3 mentioned is too punishing to shoot a lot with. After firing all day on a rifle course I was taking for SWAT with our HK and firing over half a case I showed up for day 2 with a noticeable swollen cheek and a painful flinch on every shoot. Cool looking weapon but I had to finish the course with my AR-15 to pass.

Great thread and a really big thanks to everyone that contributed!

Cheers,
Mitch
30 year career Law Enforcement/SWAT/Firearms Instructor/Camper/Survival enthusiast





My Colt AR (am probably going to lighten this by going to less/lighter railsand the 37mm is only on there when I am 'playing' The other side has a SureFire Scout light).

 
#88 ·
same here except mine is a 12ga. I picked one up as a long term hunting arm after i saw a vid of using high-brass and black powder then loading it as you would a muzzle loader. i got the idea from Dave Canterbury. Wanted to post the vid but could not find it again...:confused:
 
#87 ·
Yuppers, its fugly! It is set up to sight through the existing standard iron sights for your 'cheek weld' distance shooting. The optic on the top is the Leupold CQB Mark IV and is set for 1:1 and rapid, both eyes open, heads up, fast target acquisition and engagement. You bring the weapon up and keep your head up, not tilted to the side or even trying to get a 'face plant'. The type of shooting it is set up for is 25-50 yard (or less) close range quick target engagement combat (law enforcement). Working your way through clearing a building with a tilted head and cheek plant seems awkward once you try it this way. You can zoom up to 4 power and make a face plant using this optic but is more of a head up than head tilt so it is different. Hey, I shoot very well with it in this configuration so as they say, don't knock it till you try it ;)

By the way, the operator is not much prettier than the rifle anyways ;).


Cheers,
Mitch
 
#89 ·
im tracking on usage, but I guess my question would be why not attach optic directly to rail on upper reciever and throw B/U iron behind (as opposed to wasting your rail space with a carry handle / rear sight)... during my first tour in iraq i had a normal aimpoint m68 with a higher mount that would allow for being on target when you brought the rifle up to high ready, no need to adjust head or rifle... the sight offset will also kinda screw with your downrange performance, if you have that zeroed to 50m then you must be hitting hella high at 100... to each his own i guess.... is that thing difficult to weild / turn & point???
 
#90 ·
My FN Sporter (223) --
5 digit serial number, 1988, still shooting straight and always.

only stoppages have been:
mag
ammo
operator headspace and timing
 

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