Hearing damage and truth on ear protection - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-06-2017, 07:36 PM
sixtus sixtus is online now
Prepared
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Australian tropics
Posts: 297
Thanks: 306
Thanked 317 Times in 148 Posts
Default Hearing damage and truth on ear protection



Advertise Here

Gents regards hearing protection, it doesn't always..... protect that is.
If you take some firearms operating at 160-170 decibels and the best hearing protection offering 35-38 or so decibels reduction( and some much lower), you may still be at dangerous impulse levels.

There are also several other factors most are not aware of.

1. Scientists often disagree whether we can actually measure impulse noise of this intensity accurately yet, the readings may be even higher.

2. Double hearing protection does not double the rating, its adds about 5db more to the other hearing protection. So xyz brand earmuffs at 35db and plugs at 35 DB and the overall protection is 35+5 = 40db, not 70 db

3. With earplugs these ratings assume a perfect fit for the wearers ear, which is not always the case. Custom plugs are worth considering for a truer rating.

4. Sound is also conducted through your skull not related to your ear coverings. It enters the mouth, eyes, and also bones around the ear as well

5. Having earmuffs that clamp tightly are worth considering to reduce the bone conduction at least around and to the rear of the ear

6. Firing guns at ranges is severe stress for ears because not only are you listening to your firearm, you are getting the impulse noise from a dozen other firers.

7. Even with hearing protection audiologists agree in very noisy workplaces of continual noise( mining, process plants, etc) workers should take a break every so often to let the small hairs in the inner ear recover momentarily. This means they know hearing protection is not completely protecting ears and the companies know this as well.

I don't mean to sound doom and gloom particularly for those enjoying their short barrelled firearms, but felt the above is worth mentioning for the younger generation of workers/shooters out there. Stack the odds in your favor, take the most precautions you can to enjoy your hearing as long as you can.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sixtus For This Useful Post:
Old 05-07-2017, 12:48 PM
MBI's Avatar
MBI MBI is offline
American by Choice
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 197
Thanks: 753
Thanked 301 Times in 121 Posts
Default

Very true.

This is the main reason I prefer to shoot suppressed weapons whenever possible. Hearing damage is cumulative. Here's hoping the Hearing Protection Act passes soon. Or ever.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MBI For This Useful Post:
Old 05-07-2017, 01:34 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SC
Posts: 5,510
Thanks: 710
Thanked 6,556 Times in 2,995 Posts
Default

I wear foam ear plugs and shooter-muffs. May not double protection but seems to help a lot.
The Following User Says Thank You to PalmettoTree For This Useful Post:
 
Old 05-07-2017, 01:43 PM
JL1 JL1 is offline
prepared for life & death
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The South
Posts: 1,358
Thanks: 834
Thanked 2,449 Times in 938 Posts
Default

Not just guns, moderately loud music, power tools, lawn and heavy equipment. Mine has been damaged from all of the above. Tinnitus. no fun having a constant ringing, especially when it's quiet.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to JL1 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-07-2017, 05:57 PM
ppine ppine is offline
Forester
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 9,079
Thanks: 7,080
Thanked 9,330 Times in 4,601 Posts
Default

Guns are bad, but so are many machines like chain saws and even lawn mowers. Sometimes people are exposed to them for 8 hours a day. We did not wear hearing protection in the early days. Now I wish we did.

Loud music can be really bad. I bring ear plugs to certain concerts now.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ppine For This Useful Post:
Old 05-07-2017, 06:07 PM
hardcalibres hardcalibres is offline
Swirl Herder
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,359
Thanks: 3,171
Thanked 3,310 Times in 978 Posts
Default

Another factor to consider is that ear muffs are often combined with shooting glasses.

The problem is that legs of conventional glasses that secure them in place also decrease the effectiveness of the muff pads.

One alternative to conventional glasses that increases the effectiveness of ear muffs is tactical goggles (the head band tension increase clamping force of the ear muffs underneath it).

While they look dorky, I always wear ballistic goggles over ear muffs and ear plugs when I shoot 50BMG or anything with a muzzle brake.
The Following User Says Thank You to hardcalibres For This Useful Post:
Old 05-07-2017, 06:16 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SC
Posts: 5,510
Thanks: 710
Thanked 6,556 Times in 2,995 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixtus View Post
2. Double hearing protection does not double the rating, its adds about 5db more to the other hearing protection. So xyz brand earmuffs at 35db and plugs at 35 DB and the overall protection is 35+5 = 40db,
That is another 14%. Anyone know how they came up with that number?

"Properly fitted earplugs or muffs reduce noise 15 to 30 dB. The better earplugs and muffs are approximately equal in sound reduction, although earplugs are better for low frequency noise and earmuffs for high frequency noise. Simultaneous use of earplugs and muffs usually adds 10 to 15 dB more protection than either used alone. Combined use should be considered when noise exceeds 105 dB. Note that for such situations, it may be that there is no type of hearing protection that will stop a very loud noise from affecting you." American Hearing Research Foundation

My advice based on experience is start with the foam ear plugs you twist down small and they expand to close your ear canal. Then use the best ear-muffs you can afford.
Old 05-07-2017, 07:15 PM
sixtus sixtus is online now
Prepared
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Australian tropics
Posts: 297
Thanks: 306
Thanked 317 Times in 148 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PalmettoTree View Post
That is another 14%. Anyone know how they came up with that number?

Simultaneous use of earplugs and muffs usually adds 10 to 15 dB more protection than either used alone. Combined use should be considered when noise exceeds 105 dB. Note that for such situations, it may be that there is no type of hearing protection that will stop a very loud noise from affecting you." American Hearing Research Foundation
Again, experts cannot agree on that.

http://www.audiologyonline.com/artic...muffs-and-1218

Says 0-15 DB difference( meaning at some impulses/frequencies, a second set of hearing protection does not help at all) and that they consider 5DB as reasonable figure under most circumstances.
Old 05-07-2017, 08:18 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SC
Posts: 5,510
Thanks: 710
Thanked 6,556 Times in 2,995 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixtus View Post
Again, experts cannot agree on that.

For example
http://www.audiologyonline.com/artic...muffs-and-1218

Says 0-15 DB difference( meaning at some impulses/frequencies, a second set of hearing protection makes no difference at all) and that they consider 5DB as reasonable figure under most circumstances.
The loudness is a function of amplitude. It does not seem reasonable that if a set of earmuffs knock down 30 or 35 db then a set of foam ear plugs blocking the ear canal only blocks another 5 db. That may or may not be a fact. I know for a fact if it is only 5db then that is a noticeable difference to me. Now it could be the earmuffs I prefer are older that the ones I purchased for my children and grandchildren when the shoot with me. My set of earmuffs may not be doing the job of newer muffs.
Old 05-08-2017, 01:11 AM
sixtus sixtus is online now
Prepared
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Australian tropics
Posts: 297
Thanks: 306
Thanked 317 Times in 148 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PalmettoTree View Post
The loudness is a function of amplitude. It does not seem reasonable that if a set of earmuffs knock down 30 or 35 db then a set of foam ear plugs blocking the ear canal only blocks another 5 db. That may or may not be a fact. I know for a fact if it is only 5db then that is a noticeable difference to me.
Well its what the scientists can't agree on either. My uninformed guess is one set of protection blocks the ear canal sounds as much as possible. After which the bone conduction and sounds making it through other channels are still getting in, regardless whatever else you put over the ear.

Keep in mind decibels are a logarithmic scale. A 10DB increase means the sound energy doubles. So its quite possible for there to be a large difference in percieved hearing with only 5DB difference.

Sorry if the theory worries you regards your kids shooting with you. it worries me too these days, I lost a chunk of hearing over the years. The audiologists generally agree there is no way to protect ears from some extreme level sounds
Old 05-08-2017, 09:10 AM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SC
Posts: 5,510
Thanks: 710
Thanked 6,556 Times in 2,995 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixtus View Post
Keep in mind decibels are a logarithmic scale. A 10DB increase means the sound energy doubles. So its quite possible for there to be a large difference in percieved hearing with only 5DB difference.
Excellent point! Thanks
Old 05-08-2017, 10:08 AM
rockuser rockuser is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 215
Thanks: 16
Thanked 196 Times in 95 Posts
Default

Good post ! Once it's gone ,no cure. much of my hearing loss could be helped. still
One should always carry something , I've seen even cigarette filters used .
The Following User Says Thank You to rockuser For This Useful Post:
Old 05-08-2017, 10:21 AM
Kalashnikov47's Avatar
Kalashnikov47 Kalashnikov47 is online now
Unrepentant Deplorable
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: US-Deep South
Age: 56
Posts: 4,957
Thanks: 687
Thanked 12,867 Times in 3,676 Posts
Default

Yeah, tell me something I don't know since I have permanent hearing loss due to firearms being discharged even though I wear hearing protection...

Maybe I should file a lawsuit against the federal government for hearing loss since they put suppressors which are a hearing protection device on the NFA that not only makes them VERY expensive but also is a long lengthy process to be "approved" to even buy one...
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kalashnikov47 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-11-2017, 12:20 AM
DeniseFranklin DeniseFranklin is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Loud music has a bad effect on me.
Old 05-11-2017, 06:59 AM
greif greif is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: state of intoxication
Posts: 367
Thanks: 62
Thanked 440 Times in 191 Posts
Default

I have gotten used to the ringing, the problem I have is sometimes the ringing is louder then people talking
Old 05-17-2017, 11:34 AM
sixtus sixtus is online now
Prepared
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Australian tropics
Posts: 297
Thanks: 306
Thanked 317 Times in 148 Posts
Default

I did some more research and it was as I guessed. The ability for hearing protection, 1 or 2 sets to reduce sound ceilings at around 40db.

After that sound will still enter by bone conduction through the skull and teeth(which makes sense given how easily you can hear noise chewing crunchy food) and there is no way to stop this.

"In noise attenuation, there is a ceiling effect, whereby more and more protection does not offer any additional noise reduction. We hear noise through two channels: the air-conducted noise (sound through the air) and the bone-conducted noise (vibrations amplified through teeth and skull). Bone conduction is the pathway used when you bite down on crunchy food and hear the sound amplified through your teeth and skull louder than air-conducted sound heard through the ears. Hearing protectors effectively can stop only the air-conducted noise, but not the bone-conducted signals. For many people, the noise-blocking ability of the outer ear for air-conducted noise maxes out around 40 dB. Above that, you will still hear sound, but it's coming through your skeletal system, and you would need acoustically sealed body armor to stop that" http://ehstoday.com/ppe/hearing-prot...t-extreme-0401


gents I am no longer inclined to encourage my young kinfolk to partake in the shooting sports. When they turn 18 they can make the decision themselves. Either that or keep them with low noise ammo options growing up. Its not worth deleting such a precious thing as hearing early on in life.
Old 05-18-2017, 09:04 AM
Kalashnikov47's Avatar
Kalashnikov47 Kalashnikov47 is online now
Unrepentant Deplorable
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: US-Deep South
Age: 56
Posts: 4,957
Thanks: 687
Thanked 12,867 Times in 3,676 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixtus View Post
I did some more research and it was as I guessed. The ability for hearing protection, 1 or 2 sets to reduce sound ceilings at around 40db.

After that sound will still enter by bone conduction through the skull and teeth(which makes sense given how easily you can hear noise chewing crunchy food) and there is no way to stop this.

"In noise attenuation, there is a ceiling effect, whereby more and more protection does not offer any additional noise reduction. We hear noise through two channels: the air-conducted noise (sound through the air) and the bone-conducted noise (vibrations amplified through teeth and skull). Bone conduction is the pathway used when you bite down on crunchy food and hear the sound amplified through your teeth and skull louder than air-conducted sound heard through the ears. Hearing protectors effectively can stop only the air-conducted noise, but not the bone-conducted signals. For many people, the noise-blocking ability of the outer ear for air-conducted noise maxes out around 40 dB. Above that, you will still hear sound, but it's coming through your skeletal system, and you would need acoustically sealed body armor to stop that" http://ehstoday.com/ppe/hearing-prot...t-extreme-0401


gents I am no longer inclined to encourage my young kinfolk to partake in the shooting sports. When they turn 18 they can make the decision themselves. Either that or keep them with low noise ammo options growing up. Its not worth deleting such a precious thing as hearing early on in life.
...and this is a real shame that government is allowed a monopoly on sound suppressors for firearms based on fictional hollywierd movies...

This is why I say lawsuits need to be filed against the federal government over hearing loss for their monopoly over firearm suppressors, UNLESS the federal government can prove firearm sound suppressors are used in a nefarious way they have zero ground to stand on...

They should be forced to show statistics to back-up their assertion(s) that firearm suppressors are used in gun crimes...
Old 05-18-2017, 01:50 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SC
Posts: 5,510
Thanks: 710
Thanked 6,556 Times in 2,995 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalashnikov47 View Post
...and this is a real shame that government is allowed a monopoly on sound suppressors for firearms based on fictional hollywierd movies...

This is why I say lawsuits need to be filed against the federal government over hearing loss for their monopoly over firearm suppressors, UNLESS the federal government can prove firearm sound suppressors are used in a nefarious way they have zero ground to stand on...

They should be forced to show statistics to back-up their assertion(s) that firearm suppressors are used in gun crimes...
I agree but fear there will be some attempt to outlaw or require mandatory suppressing of older firearms.
Old 05-18-2017, 05:33 PM
greif greif is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: state of intoxication
Posts: 367
Thanks: 62
Thanked 440 Times in 191 Posts
Default

Are the active noise cancelling headphones any better?
The Following User Says Thank You to greif For This Useful Post:
Old 05-19-2017, 12:08 PM
MBI's Avatar
MBI MBI is offline
American by Choice
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 197
Thanks: 753
Thanked 301 Times in 121 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greif View Post
Are the active noise cancelling headphones any better?
They're still not going to stop noise transmitted via bone conduction. Also, active noise cancellation is much more suited to dampening continuous background noise, for example: wind and engine noise in an airplane. It is far less effective at dampening impulse noises, like gunshots.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MBI For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net