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Looking For long range Comms 30 mile range

12K views 38 replies 20 participants last post by  thoreau 
#1 ·
I think we can all agree the FRS/GRMS radios can only get a few miles reliably in most conditions, UHF/VHF and CB's not too much further. Does anyone have any ideas for base units that can transmit and receive at ranges to 30 miles, from a small city to a ranch type terrain without getting too cost or component heavy. We are not looking to be HAM radio operators. It really will be used to notify bug out buddies that we are on the way if and when cell service goes down. In the field, handheld CB's will do fine, we get 4-5 miles with those. Any input would be helpful.
 
#2 ·
If everything is down, your out of luck with out a ham radio or a CB with a big ass linear.

Seriously, look into getting you general lic and practice now so you have the skills(its a combo of science and vodoo) to make the comms you need.
 
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#3 ·
I will now invoke Tevin's Law: Ham radio is so essential to preparedness that you cannot really say you are prepared without it.

If you're not interested in being a ham yourself, you at the very least need an experienced radio operator on-call. It's that big of a deal, up there with guns and water.

The only other option is business band radio, and it's a very poor substitute for prepping purposes. You will need an FCC permit and some rather expensive gear. In most areas, clear bandwidth is in short supply so getting a high-power simplex frequency for your exclusive use is a very long shot. You will likely have to share with another licensee and/or lease space on a repeater. You will not be able to communicate with anyone outside of your small radio group.

By the way, have you used those CB handy-talkies in an actual "real world" trial? I would be amazed if they really go 4-5 miles. Hell, I would be impressed if they went one mile!
 
#11 ·
I agree 100%

Get your ham license. It is much easier than most people think. Once you get that part done then you will, probably with great ease, get on the air with a local repeater and hit your 30+ mile expectation with an inexpensive handheld.

Your next step would then be to get a decent mobile rig installed on a good antenna. When you have done this and you are communicating with someone with a like setup you will find that 30 miles (depending on the terrain and noise floor - interference) will be an easy number to hit for regular communications.

The best part is that when you have the license and a good radio you will be among a group that has a great deal of experience and likely will have a radio that can communicate with you and tell you the best ways o use what you have.

Then (after you have been licensed and have some experience) if you are not looking at communicating with the just anyone in the world and the SHTF there are many ways a properly modified (simple mods) Ham Radio can communicate with others on less common frequencies.
 
#4 ·
Don't underestimate the power of the CB! A properly adjusted CB can reach some pretty amazing distances, I've talked to folks 100 miles from my location on multiple occasions, and that's with a CB that's completely legal, just well tuned! Granted, all those times I've reached that far it has been under ideal conditions. A person with the specific knowledge can amp and pre-amp a CB to be far more powerful than the 4 watts the Gov. regulates........
 
#6 ·
Don't underestimate the power of the CB!
Yeah, yeah...I know. The topic has been beaten to death: Every now and then on a fluke you can shoot skip a few hundred miles on CB. The original post is looking for a reliable 30 mile range. Eleven meters is an extremely poor choice for this purpose. And anyone who isn't interested in being a ham probably isn't willing to fool around illegally tweaking CBs either.

If anything, I overestimate "the power of CB" when I say in a real world practical application using handy-talkies, you'll get a few miles...maybe. Don't oversell the product: It's a stinkin' 4-watt AM signal on a junk band famous for heavy interference and unstable propagation.
 
#5 ·
breaker, breaker 19...

I remember back in the day...we had a CB base setup at the farm with antenna on a 60' tower. I could talk to truckers every night on the highway over thirty miles away. Sometimes I could talk to someone in a foreign country because it would 'skip'. The skip transmission could fail at any moment, but usually lasted a good while. :eek::
 
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#29 ·
I remember back in the day...we had a CB base setup at the farm with antenna on a 60' tower. I could talk to truckers every night on the highway over thirty miles away. Sometimes I could talk to someone in a foreign country because it would 'skip'. The skip transmission could fail at any moment, but usually lasted a good while. :eek::
Yep a 60' tower will definately help get that 27 MHZ out there and given the right deflection, the topography and the correct atmospherics, you can skip thousands of miles. BUT you cant do it reliably. The only reliable way to independently get 30 miles is HF HAM with an NVIS antenna set-up. Period!

Herein lies the difference between HAMs that practise commo for SHTF and those people that see radio commo as a hobby. Both are successful and legit. You have to consider your primary application for your particular needs or wants. Also it depends on what you are prepping for, a local natural disaster or a federal shutdown of commo.

Everyone worries about what would happen to the internet if the govt pulls the plug. Well if that does happen, I guarantee the feds wont let those repeaters keep working either. Granted that situation is extreme, but I prepare for that. Anything less severe, I am ready with my 10 lbs worth of commo I can carry in my ruck and I can talk regular to Mo Go, Granddad Prepper, Armourdude. I am the south end of that 600 mile coverage Mo Go referred to. It all depends what you want, there is no wrong answer in commo, from GMRS to CB to HF HAM, just wrong applications of radio commo.

P.S. I just remembered a real world application of what I am talking about. When Kuwait was invaded by Iraq, The federal gov. got a significant portion of it's intel regarding Kuwait City from a civilian Kuwaiti HAM operator, located across the street from Iraqi headquarters and transmitting through data links (not voice) to an civilian operator here in the mid-west, who in turn funnelled the info to the Feds. He operated right under the Iraqi noses thru the entire occupation until we liberated them months later. He needed no repeaters or outside equipment, just a computer, batteries and his HF radio.
 
#7 ·
Don't underestimate the capabilities of GMRS. GMRS offers licensees up to 50 watts, high-gain antennas and repeaters. I often use GMRS for my local communications, and with 5 watts and a mobile antenna I can keep in touch with the bunker from anywhere in town, and town is about 20 miles across, and that's without using a repeater. With the repeater, I can keep in touch with the bunker from almost 70 miles away. The advantages of GMRS are that one license covers your whole family, there are no technical tests, and you can have your own private repeater if you want. You can pick up surplus public safety radios cheap and have then programmed for your channels and a repeater can be built easily from a pair of Motorola radios and a device called a RICK.
 
#9 ·
There are frequencies available for low band use on an itinerant basis, but they are limited to about 2 watts. The low band frequencies offer similar range to CB without all the noise and trash. Like Jerry said, this isn't cheap, especially if you opt for a higher power low band channel, say 50-100 watts. You can pick up some trunk mounted MaraTrac radios fairly cheap on ebay, they are 110 watts.
 
#10 ·
Get Technician, then General, then Extra. And then think about getting involved in local clubs, learning Morse for its own sake, becoming an instructor, becoming a VE, etc. and training the next generation. Earning Extra will a smile on your face that won't go away any time soon.
 
#12 ·
I am interested in ham radio. But I don't have the first clue about it. How do you become licensed? Typical startup cost? Newbie info....

I will search the threads...
 
#18 ·
While many just go through the test questions and answers until they are basically memorized & then go take the tests.

OK - so you pass the tests but what did you learn? In one word - Nothing.

I know some that did this over a year ago and are just getting the hang of it. You miss the basics of Antennas, Propagation and how things just work. But while the books say certain things are certain ways - you will find that is variable out in the wild.

Get the Study Guides for each License. Tech, General, Extra. Just like in school - read them and highlight - then go back and re-read it again paying more attention to what you highlighted.

If you have any knowledge of electronics & electricity it will start to sink in quick.

It will take you about a week or 2 to really get a base of how things work for each licence - Extra may take a bit longer.

Read the Tech & General one after the other as the are very inter-related and try to get both tests done in the same day.

Do a re-scan of the books before you take the tests - and use the online practice tests till you feel good.

You will do fine. Most Radio Clubs offer the tests - do a google for ham clubs in your area - and it should be on there site someplace.

Radios - No need to buy new. There are plenty of great used radios on the market to get. Most Hams take good care of there radios - and many just buy the latest to have fun and then sell them.

You could get a All band HF-VHF/UHF radio Used for around $500 to 700 depending on what you get.

Good 100 watt radios to look for:
Yaesu FT-857 D or Non D - the D gets you the 60m band pre-programed.
Yaesu FT-897 D or Non D
Yaesu FT-100D

ICOM 706 MKIIG - there are a few variations on this model.

Kenwood TS-50 - HF Only, no vhf/uhf - but still a very good rig

Antenna
Build a multi-band dipole fro about $70 or less depending on what you have or buy.

Antenna Tuner

Depending on what radio you get LDG make some great small portable tuners - I have 2 and have no issues. These run around $150 to 200 for what you will need.

So for about $700 to 900 give or take - it all depends on what you can find used.

http://www.eham.net/

http://www.qrz.com/index.html

http://www.ebay.com

And most Ham stores also have used gear.

http://www.hamradio.com/
http://www.aesham.com/
http://www.hamcity.com/default.asp
http://www.radioinc.com/
http://www.universal-radio.com/
http://www.associatedradio.com/

That should be a start. Also if you have a Radio Store near by, go check it out - good way to see and get hooked.
 
#13 ·
There are several sits including http://www.qrz.com free study and the one i like http://www.hamtestonline.com. $20 for a two year period to study for your Tech lic.

Do like i did and pay for all three Tech, Gen & Extra for less than $80. I studied for 1.5 months during all of my travels(about 32 actual hours of online study) and took both Tech and General test in one sitting.

After about 45 mins of test taking and waiting for the grading i passed both and only missed 3 on each( you can miss 9 out of 35 on each and still pass.

Ham Test Online has a unique study method and a very special test taking section that tracks your progress like nothing else.

I took my tests on 8/28/2011 and was published the nest week in the FCC data base. Bought the HF radio mid October. Since then i have talked to 18 US States, 3 foreign countries or entities(Canada, Christmas Island, Cape Verde Island AF). Probably a total of 10 hours on the radio normally about 1-4 hrs per week.


I have a special situ where i can not use the radio when my wife is home due to RF sensitivity issues.

Start reading the threads on QRZ.com and post here for questions and help.
 
#14 ·
All Pilot's used to be required to have an FCC license, but they don't do that anymore. I used to have one back in the day.... or stone age as my Grandson put's it.
 
#15 ·
I got my pilots lic in 86 and did not need one then.

What did you have a FCC or Pilots lic or both?
 
#16 ·
memories fuzzy...



In '75 when I got my private, you had to have an FCC operator's license or permit to operate the aircraft radios. It was part of the coarse study. But they dropped the FCC requirement soon afterward. I had both a Private Pilot license and an FCC radio operator's license or permit. Both had to be carried on your person when flying.
 
#17 ·
HAM licence aquasizition proper ways.

First the easiest way is getting the test questions and reviewing them over and over until you have memorized them. I put them in card format myself and poof there you go.

Next is to actually learn. There are a few ways to do this. Trial and error, working your way up the radio food chain, and assisted learning. My suggestion is to get a handheld, then go to a local Amateur radio meeting if you have time. The handheld will get you going, and if you get the right one you can MARS it and get on FRS/GMRS, military, air freqs etc. You can always mod it and not transmit anyways just in case there is a emergency, but you have to get licenced and do the approved uses to transmit in special areas.

1. Study the test questions and answers. Possibly buy a handheld radio like a WOUXON, Yeasu VX-7R, or other great choices and listen.
2. Get tech licence.
3. Talk on the 2 meter repeaters/go to HAM group meetings.

Everyone says, "Don't underestimate ______" great but most of the comments to the fact require one of two things. A perfect storm, or juice to run the system. If you are very educated and can handle maxing out the abilities of GMRS and CB then you probably are smart enough to do that on HAM.

5 watt ham radios can and have been known to do 5000+ miles on good days. Now that is what I call a perfect storm, but the reality is getting a HAM licence and learning that radio will make you better at CB and GMRS. I commmend the people who can role with CB and GMRS and get good results, and I think they have there prupose, but its like learning to be a surgen without first having a good foundation. You will learn the foundation, but backwards.

Further I can take my tech licence trained people, a 2 meter radio and hit satillites with a compass. It isn't hard and hell if I go even further I could in theory hit the moon with MORSE and do a moon bounce.
 
#19 ·
when the chips are down I won't care about licence terms, buy any radio system that works for you, just keep it legal until you need it. Certainly if you have the interest then take your exaims, you'll learn plenty and have much fun.
CB is certainly worth considering, I know one chap on here, that spends a lot of time on his own in the mountains, he has no cell coverage and I believe he is making a grave mistake by not at least having a CB in his truck.

Cheers

:)
 
#20 ·
With out setting up repeaters, you are not going to get a hand held that will reach out that far. If you did it would be unhealthy to have it be that close to you. I have seen a turkey cooked on a ham antenna. I have also seen hands burned on transmit antennas.

The higher the frequency the more line radio works just line of sight. Not more than 3 miles on average. LF and VLF (Very Low Frequency) reach the most distance.

CB can get some range with a really well tuned antenna and a good ground plane but that is not going to happen with a handheld.
 
#21 ·
Got a dumb noob question. Maybe I should start a new thread, sorry Mr. OP if I'm screwing up your thread.

I used to see great big antenna's where there was a ham radio. Have they shrunk them down? I have not seen one in years.
 
#22 ·
Well what you might be thinking of are the big Beam Antennas you see on towers. Those are still Big.

But you don't need that type of antenna for Bug Out/Survival Comms.

A simple Dipole will do just fine - I put up a thread on Dipoles.

There are some "Small" HF antennas, but you compromise with the smaller size because of the wave lengths involved in HF communications - but they do work.
 
#27 ·
Of course it can. From down the street to around the world.

We have a group of SB guys that meets on 40m at least once a week covering something like 600 miles and a group forming out on the west coast that our group talks to at least once a week on 20m...

Many have preached it but I am going to reiterate - the time to get your comms ready is now. PM me if you are interested in joining an on air HF round table/net and don't have a problem using your call sign outside of this public forum! We are looking for people that are capable on 20, 40, and/or 80m that are at least Generals...

We need people in the eastern region (east of Texas/arkansas) in this network desperately!

Sorry to get off topic but it seemed like a good segue...

73,

Mo-Go
 
#28 ·
With a little 33ft vert Par End Fedz 20M wire hidden in my pine tree,Today i QSO(talked) to CT3 MADEIRA CONTEST TEAM, CR3A on Madeira Island off the coast of Portugal at 5280 miles and the longest to date KOCHI Japan at 6159 miles!!! All with a little wire that you can hardly see.
 
#30 ·
I would definitely look into ham radio. For 30 mile contacts, I would look into NVIS.
What is NVIS?
Near-Vertical Incident Skywave is a combination of radio hardware, skywave radio propagation, operating procedures, cooperation, and knowledge used by a group of radio operators who need reliable regional communications. It fills the gap between line-of-sight groundwave and long-distance “skip” skywave communications.
this type of communication is specific to the antenna. One huge benefit of this kind of communication is that it is extremely hard to DF. I recommend doing a Google search on the subject.
 
#32 ·
Another simple idea you could use is a simplex repeater. If there is a mountain in between you and who you are trying to reach, you could put a simplex repeater on top of that mountain with a very good 70 cm antenna and make it solar. This would be fairly easy to do and not cost very much either. You could accomplish this with GMRS radios.

I am personally considering putting together a simplex repeater for community security in a post **** hit the fan environment.
 
#33 ·
MK

Thats a great idea.
 
#35 ·
If your ("you're" for the people who appreciate grammar) looking at 30 mile range with an HT, it's entirely possible. Get a 5w HT, 50w amplifier (12 VDC) and something better than a rubber ducky antenna. As for categorically stating that all repeaters will be down when TSHTF, that's hard to say. Most TSHTF's are localized, and many repeaters have a backup generator. Some repeaters are owned/operated by some dedicated guy in his back-40, who'll keep it up come hell or highwater. I wouldn't count on them all being up, but it's possible some will remain on-air awhile at least.
 
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