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Sheath knife/boy scout situation.

29K views 136 replies 52 participants last post by  TAHAWK 
#1 ·
I have a bit of a situation with sheath knives and boy scout regulations.

One of the B.S.A. rules is "THOU SHALT NOT HAVE SHEATH KNIVES" and that realy sucks.

So here is my situation: I am a 15 year old militant, who on boy scout campouts wants to exersize my contitutinal right to keep and bear sheath knives.

But the problem is athority. Acording to bsa rules sheath knives are a no no.

But thats not what I have a problem with... its my dad.

he wont let me. When I tried to reason with him he said that we were going to respect the bsa rules. then I pointed out that we break the bsa rules alot. so I dug deaper then he said it was about geting soued He says that if some one gets heart or killed and we are braking the bsa rules we can get soued and such and such.

He gets realy mad when I bring this up.

The B.S.A's modo is always be prepared.

Or it could be always be a hipacrite.

How can are modo be always be prepared if we are not alowed to bring the tools we need to be fully prepared.

What can I do?

P.S. I have not asked the scout master if I can take sheath knives.
 
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#2 ·
Quit the skouts, you obviously know better than anything they can teach you anyway.
Move out too, your old man is just keeping you down so he can feel better about himself.

OR

Respect, and play by the rules of the organization that gives you so many opportunities to learn stuff they quit teaching in classrooms decades ago.
Some of the rules may not be to everyone's liking, but they usually are created out of necessity from lessons learned in blood.
Really, you only have a few more years until you get to try everything the hard way, take what comes to you now. If you must master the fixed blade before you can drive, do it on your own time with your dad. Until you have your eagle, play by the rules and take the knowledge the BSA has to offer.
 
#6 ·
Why is a Boy Scout arguing with his father? Hmmm, maybe its not the subject of the argument, but the argument itself.

I have a 14 yr old son who knows much more than me and most other adults. Thats why he has so much trouble in school and its what landed him in a ':whip:behavior modification' program that sure wasnt the BSA twice since he was 11 yr old.

Listen to your Papa, and trust his judgement. We ALL have to live by laws and rules we dont agree with. What counts is how a person follows those rules, not how he gets around them.

Now, on a side note, BSA says you cant bring sheath knives to camp activities, not that you cant own one. But thats left up to Pa and Pa has the final answer. PERIOD! GOT IT?:D:
 
#7 ·
I HAD a Boy Scout sheath knife when I was a kid. They made an official one, don't remember who made it though, and it went bye bye long ago.

It was about 4" , had leather washer handle like USMC knife.



According to write up, it just said "official BSA" on one side and "made in USA" on the other.

Here's one from pre WWII even:



Anyway, kid ... part of life is obeying most of the rules all of the time, and breaking some of them some of the time. In this case, go with the flow and honor thy father, and just like in the military, obey the rules of the BSA you signed up for.

- OS
 
#9 ·
Granted I'm a lot older than you but try walking around a Girl Scout camp with a sheath knife on (think Gerber LMF) and the looks I would get but nobody ever said anything to me. Now if I had one of my Ontairo's it might have been different. My wife had a g/s troop and I would tag along (or get dragged along) for some of their "camping trips" in cabins. I think I was the only one in the whole camp that had a knife on them and several times I was asked if it could be borrowed since no other leaders or scouts seemed to have one. On the other hand I have heard that even some Boy Scout camps no longer allow knives on their property - I guess due to liability. If asked though I would have removed it and put it up.
 
#10 ·
I haven't checked lately but I think the BSA national safety guidelines do not prohibit fixed blade knives. I think they recommend that their use be limited to fishing (for filleting).

I think local councils or camps may have additional rules such as the blade cannot be more than 3"

But again I have not refreshed my memory so I could be wrong.

When I was a scoutmaster I had a rule against electronic entertainment devices on camping trips - i.e., no boom boxes, MP3 players, gaming devices, etc. I later relaxed the rule to permitting them if used out of sight with headphones on free time. My position was if you did not like my rule, go find another troop.

Sometimes you are forced to follow the rules and have no options. I doubt your knife is permitted in school, but again I could be wrong. In some crazy schools you probably would be suspended for just drawing a picture of a knife.

But as for scouts, as others have said, you have choices: follow the rule, argue for its change, or go join an organization that permits them.

UPDATE:

Here is the link to the National BSA Scouting Safety Guidelines. It just says sheath knives should be avoided.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss08.aspx#f

But as I said local councils or camps can have stricter rules, but you can at least argue that national does not prohibit them (although possibly there are other national guidelines so google is your friend).
 
#11 ·
I know when I was a Boy Scout(69-77) I had and carried a fixed blade/sheath knife. If I recall correctly BSA even sold a fixed blade and hatchet sheath combo. However you HAD TO HAVE a "Toting Chip" to carry/use them. For those of us that had the "Toting Chip" and could not travel to the "Official BSA" Store, we would substitute a small Case fixed blade similar to this....

Specifications
379 (M3FINN SS)
Mirror-Polished Concave Ground
3 1/8" Clip Blade
Polished Leather Handle
Genuine Leather Sheath
6 1/2" overall; 2.5 oz.
Handecrafted in the USA
Of course it was different steel and sheath, but basically the same knife otherwise. So I know for a fact that Boy Scouts DID carry them in the past( I was Senior Patrol Leader). However things change. Times change. Rules Change. Liability issues change, causing insurance issues to change. Etc.....
One thing that Doesn't change though, You should listen to your Dad. Talk to him, yes, but ultimately listen to what he says...whether you like it or not. Ultimately he is responsible to you, and for you. Your Dad is doing the best he can with all of the knowledge he possesses.
 
#12 ·
I agree he should listen to his Dad and the ScoutMaster. But as a 15 year old he can certainly have a reasoned and rational discussion with either or both.

As a scoutmaster the problems I see are that while I might be able to trust certain scouts, if I do it for some, I have to do it for others that also pass the Toting Chip requirements but who I may not trust. I had an ultimate responsibility that scouting is safe and fun for all.

Perhaps because I had a suburban troop, the issue was never raised.

Additionally most scout camps and facilities ban blades over 3" long and a scoutmaster does not have control over that.
 
#123 · (Edited)
Man, oh man, do I ever agree with HIM! If you are wanting to be a REAL survivor, that does NOT mean hauling all the stuff in the world with you everywhere you go! Show YOURSELF (you are the one that matters) that you can do ANY survival skill the RANGERS could do with ONLY B.S.A. issue. When you can do that, then you're a survivor. Ask yourself this; could you survive with a canteen, compass and a POCKET knife? Could you? If so, then you ARE tough....
W&E
 
#14 ·
There is no question that a fixed blade is better for some uses. However there are multi-tools (not sure about plain folding knives as I have never checked) at least that will lock the blade in place and may be almost as easy to grip as a sheath knife even if slippery with blood or fish scales.

I suppose that wouldn't be as cool (or whatever the word is nowadays).
 
#15 ·
The polisy could be you have to have your parents permision.

You can cary a hatchet a axe or a saw, all can be deadly if missused or used as a weapon.

One kid kind of carried a sheath knife on a camp out once and none of the leaders gave him trouble.

If I cant cary a sheath knife [I intend on carying one if posible and will not give up with out a fight] I will exploit the axe and hatchet thing.
 
#34 ·
Because you can learn to be prepared without a knife. Learn to knap flint. Having a knife of any kind is not a prerequisite to being prepared or surviving... it is a tool, that's all. It could easily be argued (using actual examples of people having done so) that survival, and therefore preparedness, needs no tools except knowledge.

I would always agree that a knife -especially a sheath knife- is super handy... I carry one all the time, but not into any federal building, school, etc. A good folding knife should do fine for you. Save your militant-ism for something more worthwhile... there will be plenty of opportunity for that in your life!
 
#19 ·
I am going to sound like a bit of a prick saying this but at least it will be done and you can take it or leave it as you will.

You are young and are relying on somone elses environment and experience to learn and practice skills you may want in the future. So if they say you don't need a fixed blade then you don't need one.

Rolling up to these things with your own killfast bowie knife makes you look like a mall ninja. suddenly having an axe on your hip will do the same. Trust me on this.

pull your head in and learn something from this sort of training. You may not get another oportunity.
 
#20 ·
I am a mallninja I dress like We are going to war when I camp sheath knives are a important of survival gear.

You say "I dont Need that".

Lets not gointo the gun control thing but dont liberals say "you dont need guns".

Besides havent you seen black hawk doun?

They dident think they would need all that stuf and see how that worked out.

Alright back to the subject
 
#21 ·
I did a lot in Boy Scouts when I was a kid, and I volunteered when our sons were in scouting.

I suspect that the issue here is two fold. First a Boy Scout troop is a group of kids with a few adults. A great deal of the time the kids are by themselves, and this requires fairly high insurance. Let us face reality, kids will be kids, they do dumb things, and they get into fights.

Second is the image that a fixed-blade knife is a fighting knife.

Kids do not 'need' fighting knives.

People slip and cut themselves all the time, it happens. But when you consider stabbings, what kind of knife is the primary knife used in all stabbings? fixed-blade knives, sheath knives. Not pocket knives.

What exactly is your reasoning for wanting a sheath knife? They are not a 'better' survival tool. There are many tools available to you. What exactly do you want from a tool, and choose the best for that task.

A sheath knife looks macho. They are shown in every movie [which is all fantasy].

Can you honestly say that you have never imagined yourself fighting using your sheath knife? That is the purpose, and likely that is your own hidden desire.

A filleting knife, granted is best for filleting. But a filleting knife has no other useful purpose really.

Whittling, cutting twine / line, are all tasks better suited to a pocket knife.

From your OP you describe yourself as 'militant'. I think that herein lies the real problem. You want to defy authority, and you will find any issue that you can use to do this.

Now think about this for a minute. If you honestly remove the image of knife fighting, what function does a sheath knife do for you while camping that a pocket knife can not do better?

I admit that I fell in love with machetes while I was in Boy Scouts. They are great for cutting snow blocks to build igloos. :)
 
#27 ·
As a fellow youth, I would advise to keep to the rules, all it takes is one touchy leader to find your sheath knife and BAM you've got a hole full of the brown smelly stuff. I go camping and hiking a huge amount and I have rarely needed a larger blade than the one on my Swiss Army Knife (3"), and yes, I would like a fixed blade but for the meantime, restrictions apply to me which means I cannot carry one legally. If you learn how to make the most of your smaller blade, you might be suprised how much a bigger blade kind of drifts outta your mind!

EDIT:- Thoughts about killing fellow team members are never good, no matter how jovial they are.
EDIT:- The additional tools on a SAK or Leatherman etc. are pretty useful anywhere at anytime, where a sheath knife is just a knife!
 
#35 ·
I have a bit of a situation with sheath knives and boy scout regulations.

One of the B.S.A. rules is "THOU SHALT NOT HAVE SHEATH KNIVES" and that realy sucks.

So here is my situation: I am a 15 year old militant, who on boy scout campouts wants to exersize my contitutinal right to keep and bear sheath knives.
But the problem is athority. Acording to bsa rules sheath knives are a no no.

I think with that first statement denotes why your dad wont let you its not nessesairaly the rules but your imaturity 15yr old militant please you try goin rambo round the guys i used to roll with they would eat you for breakfast **** you out and use you to fertilize arlington be a kid you no commando learn and follow the rules also you are 15 all your constitutional rights dont kick in till you are 18 and a legal adult

But thats not what I have a problem with... its my dad.

he wont let me. When I tried to reason with him he said that we were going to respect the bsa rules. then I pointed out that we break the bsa rules alot. so I dug deaper then he said it was about geting soued He says that if some one gets heart or killed and we are braking the bsa rules we can get soued and such and such.
maby its because you act immature and the preconcieved need for a belt knife is in your head / some desire to be macho
He gets realy mad when I bring this up.

The B.S.A's modo is always be prepared.

Or it could be always be a hipacrite.
or you could stop being such a brat follow the rules and learn to be a better person

How can are modo be always be prepared if we are not alowed to bring the tools we need to be fully prepared.
what can you do with a sheath knife in the boyscouts that you cannot do with a folder/lockblade knife

What can I do?

P.S. I have not asked the scout master if I can take sheath knives.

The polisy could be you have to have your parents permision.even if it was you do not
You can cary a hatchet a axe or a saw, all can be deadly if missused or used as a weapon.so carry a folder and a hatchet

One kid kind of carried a sheath knife on a camp out once and none of the leaders gave him trouble.maby he is more mature than you or has done more training

If I cant cary a sheath knife [I intend on carying one if posible and will not give up with out a fight] I will exploit the axe and hatchet thing.
exploit the axe and hatchet thing? WTF does that mean


How can are modo be always be prepared if we are not allowd to bring the tools we need to be fully prepared?
your fifteen and what you need and what you think you need are two different things
I am a mallninja I dress like We are going to war when I camp sheath knives are a important of survival gear.
trolls more like it. and you wouldnt know the first thing bout war
You say "I dont Need that".

Lets not gointo the gun control thing but dont liberals say "you dont need guns".
I dont need a gun to survive but it makes things easier
Besides havent you seen black hawk doun?

They dident think they would need all that stuf and see how that worked out.
now that really ****es me off kid I personaly know a few guys who were in somolia when that **** happened my brigade commander col steele was one of them. you think you know how something goes down because you saw a ****ing movie!?!!? In that situation It does not matter how well prepared you are when you are fighting a whole ****ing city of people you snot nosed little brat the fact you even bring that up shows your lack of respect and immaturity
Alright back to the subject
Yes some times I want to kill some of my fellow scouts but i dont and never will.

I just want to cary sheath knives not over through the are leaders.
If I am allowd to cary sheath knives I will try to spell better.

P.S. I am home schooled.
I am hellbent on carying sheath knives help me out here.

so whats the real reason you want a sheath knife? because your a militant and think you need a rambo knife? want to look cool? you have not given one single example of how it will benifit you more than following the rules would.


all you need kid is a nice case knife


there is nothing in the scouts you cannot do with it learn to follow the rules and obey your father. your father has been around alot longer than you and in this case knows whats best


If you were my kid acting the way you seem to be and trying to go around my authority even if you got the scout masters permision I would beat you to within an inch of your life with a switch I made you choose from the woods behind the house
 
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