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Old 02-20-2017, 02:47 PM
Mule Skinner Mule Skinner is offline
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Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas in their book, Uriel's Machine, argue that the 7640 BCE evidence is consistent with the dates of formation of a number of extant salt flats and lakes in dry areas of North America and Asia. They argue that these lakes are the result remains of multiple-kilometer-high waves that penetrated deeply into continents as the result of oceanic strikes that they proposed occurred[/B].

If multiple-kilometer-high waves penetrate the continent, all our troubles are over.
Old 02-20-2017, 03:06 PM
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If multiple-kilometer-high waves penetrate the continent, all our troubles are over.
I have read Uriel's Machine. While the Authors are able to draw together a wide range of evidence (some I did not know existed) that does not necessarily prove their conclusions are correct. Still it is a very interesting read.

What I took away was, the Earth gets hit with objects big enough to disrupt our magnetic field, roughly once every 2,000 yrs.

An object of that size makes a very large hole, and a direct hit would destroy a major city. The total impact is much like the eruption from a mega volcano, and a Year Without A Summer is one possible result.
Old 02-20-2017, 03:27 PM
Mule Skinner Mule Skinner is offline
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For sure, there are asteroids of all sizes Out There, and the bigger they are the less we can do about it!

Might be worthwhile, though, to apply some of our professorial effort to the task of figuring out what the options are.
 
Old 02-22-2017, 09:05 AM
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Forget the "Big One". What I worry about are lots of little meteors, that make it all the way to the ground and are between a marble and golfball size.

A storm of those, all hitting the earth at super sonic speed would be terrifying. No place anyone around me could hide. Even a basement is not enough. They would zip right through the house like a hot knife through butter.

You'd have to hide in a deep cave, or some sort of megalithic structure.

I actually think this is why the Pyramids were made...for a scenario like that. After 10,000 years of erosion, we dont recognize the pock marks left on the outside of them, from the impacts.

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Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
Not a lot of written records date back beyond 4,000 yrs.

But we can find geological records that show 6-7 impacts in the 12,000 yds since the last ice age melted. At least one object was a fair sized comet that broke into multiple piece and impacted several ocean basins.

Alexander Tollmann's bolide, proposed by Kristan-Tollmann and Tollmann in 1994, is a hypothesis presented by Austrian geologist Alexander Tollmann, suggesting that one or several bolides (asteroids or comets) struck the Earth at 7640 BCE (±200), with a much smaller one at 3150 BCE (±200). If true, this hypothesis explains early Holocene extinctions and possibly legends of the Universal Deluge.

The claimed evidence for the event includes stratigraphic studies of tektites, dendrochronology, and ice cores (from Camp Century, Greenland) containing hydrochloric acid and sulfuric acid (indicating an energetic ocean strike) as well as nitric acids (caused by extreme heating of air).

Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas in their book, Uriel's Machine, argue that the 7640 BCE evidence is consistent with the dates of formation of a number of extant salt flats and lakes in dry areas of North America and Asia. They argue that these lakes are the result remains of multiple-kilometer-high waves that penetrated deeply into continents as the result of oceanic strikes that they proposed occurred
.

The Earth gets hit by fair sized objects on a regular basis. Unless they hit land, we do not have a lot of evidence available to allow predictions. We just have to wait until we see the object, before we can react.
Old 02-23-2017, 03:14 PM
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What the hell is an INCH?
There are many ways to say this but the net results is the same for most people: refugee.

I used to worry about EMP or CME as well as some other catastrophic event. Given the recent state of our political climate and the level of civil unrest, I believe it's much more likely to be an event that erupts from those conditions. It has been postulated that these conditions were initiated years ago and what we're seeing now is the result of something like a tidal wave that begins miles away and breaks over the land destroying everything in it's path. The slow approach has lulled everyone into complacency and events will continue to unfold slowly growing into an out-of-control explosion of civil unrest. It looks like early American history from the Revolutionary War when the country almost tore itself apart separating from England with parts of the Civil War thrown in for added confusion.

The net result could be that there is no safe place to go.
Old 02-23-2017, 03:24 PM
Mule Skinner Mule Skinner is offline
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Originally Posted by Vanishing Nomad View Post
Forget the "Big One". What I worry about are lots of little meteors, that make it all the way to the ground and are between a marble and golfball size.

A storm of those, all hitting the earth at super sonic speed would be terrifying. No place anyone around me could hide. Even a basement is not enough. They would zip right through the house like a hot knife through butter.

You'd have to hide in a deep cave, or some sort of megalithic structure.

I actually think this is why the Pyramids were made...for a scenario like that. After 10,000 years of erosion, we dont recognize the pock marks left on the outside of them, from the impacts.
No place around here to hide from that!
Unless ... if they were coming in at an angle, you could stand next to the appropriate basement wall.
Old 02-23-2017, 04:40 PM
BrianWorf BrianWorf is offline
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For me, There are only 3 scenarios I can think of that would turn into an INCH scenario.

1. EF-5 tornado. Sure, we could rebuild as we have insurance, but it means pack up everything and anything that is super important and leave in less than 5 minutes of warning. THIS is the main bug-out scenario I plan/practice for. I have eyeballed 5 tornados or funnels from my house in the 24 years I have lived here. All were EF-1 thru EF-3. I did see an EF-4 pass over my neighborhood from a distance while we were storm-chasing once. We have had an EF-5 that was heading directly towards us at about 45 minutes away and were preparing to leave when it dissipated.

2. Extraterrestrial event. Aliens land and take over our city, asteroid hits our city, Etc. A CME or even an EMP isn't an INCH scenario, as the house would still be standing.
Interesting note: The Tunguska Event (The Russian meteor impact over 100 years ago) was not an actual impact, but an air-burst of an up to 600 ft diameter meteor blowing up miles up in the sky, theorized by scientists. An actual impact would be n extinction level event.

3. Nuclear disaster at a nuclear power plant to my southwest. The prevailing winds blow from the south west. Why in the world they decided to build a nuke plant directly upwind from the DFW metroplex is puzzling......

Hick, you are a little less likely but still in the risk zone for large tornados. Joplin got hit hard.

As far as mitigating, I try and keep both vehicles that would be used as BOVs at least 1/2 full of gas at all times. Both have kits in them always. Tornado season (or other risky times) I fill up each vehicle upon return, (we have 3 gas stations next to neighborhood) Also, I have my vehicle laptop on with a continuously updating radar loop so its already to go, if needed. If it looks particularly stormy, I have extra sets of clothes already loaded in the vehicles, along with the 2 dog crates in my van.

I have mapped out several different routes that would be tangent to a likely path of a tornado. I have back roads and side roads with lots of options to avoid getting stuck in traffic. Getting on an interstate or freeway would be deadly. Some of my travel options are also power line and pipeline right-of-ways that have nice flat ground and often have gravel pathways. They also often have pole gates. I have bolt-cutters.

In the event of a non-weather emergency, I would just use the bad weather plan, although I think we might have a bit more time to prepare in advance of the emergency.
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:19 PM
Mule Skinner Mule Skinner is offline
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Originally Posted by BrianWorf View Post
2. Extraterrestrial event. Aliens land and take over our city, asteroid hits our city, Etc. A CME or even an EMP isn't an INCH scenario, as the house would still be standing.
Interesting note: The Tunguska Event (The Russian meteor impact over 100 years ago) was not an actual impact, but an air-burst of an up to 600 ft diameter meteor blowing up miles up in the sky, theorized by scientists. An actual impact would be n extinction level event.

.
I think a landing by intelligent aliens would be a big time disaster~!

Likelihood, if they have sophisticated space travel, that they are much more technically advanced, i.e. more powerful militarily.

Possibility that they will arrive with new viruses and bacteria, and other such as we have no defenses for.

Complete ignorance, on our part, of how to deal with them.

Yep. That'd be Bad News.
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanishing Nomad View Post
Forget the "Big One". What I worry about are lots of little meteors, that make it all the way to the ground and are between a marble and golfball size.

A storm of those, all hitting the earth at super sonic speed would be terrifying. No place anyone around me could hide. Even a basement is not enough. They would zip right through the house like a hot knife through butter.

You'd have to hide in a deep cave, or some sort of megalithic structure.

I actually think this is why the Pyramids were made...for a scenario like that. After 10,000 years of erosion, we dont recognize the pock marks left on the outside of them, from the impacts.
Smaller meteors have smaller momentum to atmospheric drag ratio.

Consequently they are most likely to slow to terminal velocity long before impacting the ground. At terminal velocity they will do a tiny fraction of the damage that they would have done at their original velocity as they entered the atmosphere.

Some guidelines are:
1) Objects less than a few kilograms will burn up completely in the atmosphere
2) Objects a few kg to 7000 kg will slow down due to the atmospheric drag - they may also fragment during atmospheric penetration and the resultant smaller fragments will slow or burn up.
3) These reach their terminal velocity – about 90-180 m/s (200-400 mph) or 2 to 4 times the speed of a major league pitch
4) Objects ~9,000 kg will keep some of their initial velocity – impact the ground at ~2-4km/s (1.5 miles per second!)
5) Really big objects (>1000 tonnes) won’t be noticeably slowed,
and impact the ground at near their initial velocities (>11 km/s!)
Old 02-24-2017, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mule Skinner View Post
I think a landing by intelligent aliens would be a big time disaster~!

Likelihood, if they have sophisticated space travel, that they are much more technically advanced, i.e. more powerful militarily.

Possibility that they will arrive with new viruses and bacteria, and other such as we have no defenses for.

Complete ignorance, on our part, of how to deal with them.

Yep. That'd be Bad News.
1. Nothing will bring this planet (humans as a species) TOGETHER faster and more completely than the knowledge of alien existence. In Group Out Group Sociology 101.

2. WE have our own viruses and bacteria. See War of the Worlds.

With Aliens there will be NOWHERE to go to hide. We can "bide our time" in rural areas, but the first areas attacked (if attacked) will be Major cities of the most technological advanced then moving to the 3rd world Cities. We do the same thing with bugs - Destroy the nest first then lay down a "preventive" to kill the stragglers.
Old 02-24-2017, 07:48 PM
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I am not convinced that all alien species that develop intersteller or intra-galactic space travel would necessarily be all that much more advance than we are in other ways. Could be, certainly. But not an absolute. I actually believe we could be travelling outside our solar system right now, given just one breakthrough in technology. Which I happen to think has occurred, but is not being used for one of several reasons.

Just my opinion.
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Old 02-24-2017, 08:42 PM
Mule Skinner Mule Skinner is offline
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1. Nothing will bring this planet (humans as a species) TOGETHER faster and more completely than the knowledge of alien existence. In Group Out Group Sociology 101.

2. WE have our own viruses and bacteria. See War of the Worlds.

With Aliens there will be NOWHERE to go to hide. We can "bide our time" in rural areas, but the first areas attacked (if attacked) will be Major cities of the most technological advanced then moving to the 3rd world Cities. We do the same thing with bugs - Destroy the nest first then lay down a "preventive" to kill the stragglers.
We have our own bacteria; this is certainly true.
But one of the things that happened to the Native Americans (among others) was the arrival of diseases from Europe for which they had no resistance.
See: Guns Germs and Steel.
Old 02-24-2017, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry D Young View Post
I am not convinced that all alien species that develop intersteller or intra-galactic space travel would necessarily be all that much more advance than we are in other ways. Could be, certainly. But not an absolute. I actually believe we could be travelling outside our solar system right now, given just one breakthrough in technology. Which I happen to think has occurred, but is not being used for one of several reasons.

Just my opinion.
You're right: Aliens who come to visit would be anywhere on a wide spectrum of possibilities (and even impossibilities!) However, I think it would be a mistake to assume that they are friendly and not very smart.

In order for travel outside our solar system to be practical, we need propulsion that is both MUCH faster and capable of moving MUCH more mass than we have today. I can't argue existence of it one way or the other, but so far I haven't seen any indication of it. Even if we had a light speed drive, the nearest star is still four years one-way.
Old 02-24-2017, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
This thread is partly motivated by the flooding on the Feather river, and the poor condition, and serious damage to the Oroville Dam.
But I hope it will move on to cover other, similar events.

What totally plausible, realistic crisis events could destroy your home, and what have you done to mittigate that event?


1. I suggest the Oroville Dam is the perfect definition of an I.N.C.H. event. If I still lived anywhere along the Feather or the Sacramento River, I would pack my stuff, list the house for sale, and move to higher ground. Preferably higher ground in another state.

I'm not coming home, because my home is now floating in San Fransico Bay.

2. I currently live in a rural part of the Ozark mtns. We have wild fires on a regular basis. Some of these fires grow large enough to wipe out unprepared homesteads. I responded to this by clearing a very large area around my buildings. I also shopped around for a good farm insurance policy that covers wildfires.
Just do not clear too much area.
Otherwise, depending upon steepness, mud slides replace fire as the biggest threat.
Old 02-24-2017, 09:49 PM
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The reality is, until human kind spreads out at least into our solar system with permanent colonies, there are threats out there that just cannot be prepared for and will wipe us out.

There are events that, regardless of the sophistication and depth of your preparations, just cannot be ultimately survived. Sure, you might live longer than some others. Sure, you and yours may be able to claim being the last humans alive.

Really though, what is the point of that?

I prefer to focus on the level of events with a much greater chance of survival, and hope that the breadth and depth of my preps will help me through if something bigger happens.
Old 02-24-2017, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveLife View Post
Just do not clear too much area.
Otherwise, depending upon steepness, mud slides replace fire as the biggest threat.
In my area, every large area you clear of trees and brush, immediately starts growing native grass and clover. Every time I want to clear a hilly area, I fence it and let the Goats thin down the brush. Then I clear the main trees with a chain saw, and let my livestock keep the grass short.

Btw, we average 44" of rain. One year we got 80".
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:21 AM
Mule Skinner Mule Skinner is offline
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The reality is, until human kind spreads out at least into our solar system with permanent colonies, there are threats out there that just cannot be prepared for and will wipe us out.

There are events that, regardless of the sophistication and depth of your preparations, just cannot be ultimately survived. Sure, you might live longer than some others. Sure, you and yours may be able to claim being the last humans alive.

Really though, what is the point of that?

I prefer to focus on the level of events with a much greater chance of survival, and hope that the breadth and depth of my preps will help me through if something bigger happens.
Fair enough!
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