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Cooling the old house...

8K views 58 replies 33 participants last post by  TheFittest 
#1 ·
Ok, so my AC sucks and its hot... So I'm trying to be cheap and cool at the same time :D:

Here's a link to my cheapness
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=307192

But basically, my AC costs hundreds of dollars to cool my house each month, so I'm trying ways to cool my house for less.

Swamp coolers (evaporative coolers) are great, but my humidity is already high, so they aren't a viable option.

Some things I am trying and are working are:

Fans...

I have them sucking in on the cool side of the house downstairs, and blowing out the windows upstairs. The fans alone keep the house slightly cooler than the outside air.

I open the windows up and draw cooler night air in and then seal up the house and use fans to circulate air until the air inside reaches the air temp outside (usually later in the day).

This has been working for the 90 degree days we've been having, but after a week or so of heat, my house isn't cooling off as much and it's heating up faster.

I've also made my own version of a swamp cooler that works ok. I took a left over piece of garden fence, and weaved a garden hose through it. It hangs outside over a window and I have a fan in the window drawing air in. I run cold water from the well through the hose and reduce it down to a 1/4 line to restrict the flow. The water is sent to my garden to water the plants. This works ok and actually cools the air a couple degrees, but it's not terribly efficient.

I think if I used a cars radiator instead of the hose, it would be much more efficient.

The cold water in the hose actually helps condense the moisture in the air and helps as well.

There are some idea's I have to cool it more...

I think if I get a small pool for the kids, I can use an old well pump to draw water from the pool, and run it through a hose on my roof to cool the roof, and warm the pool. A couple hundred feet spread out over the roof should do a pretty good job.

I also still have the old well pit from before I installed the new well. It's connected to the house and if I dug out the sleeve I could bury one of those 275g containers and run some PVC underground around the house for some geothermal cooling as well. Tie it into the blower in the basement and it should help cool the air. The problem is, I'd have to install a drain into the sump so I could drain condensed water from the lines.

Solar attic fans sound good to but they're expensive.

Anyone have any ideas? Something you are doing that's working?
 
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#3 ·
Sealing and insulating your attic will help a lot, if it hasn't been done already. You won't have so much heat radiating down from the attic.

Thick curtains on the windows will help.

I've heard of people who set a big block of ice in a small kiddie pool, in the middle of the living room, and they set a box fan in front of it and it cools the whole room.
 
#4 ·
It will cool you, not the house, but I've had good luck with tying a cold, wet bandanna around my head, soaking my t-shirt in cold water and sticking it in the freezer for 10 minutes before I put it on, and putting ice down my bra.

If you are lucky enough to have a basement, draw air up from it during the day. It's humid and musty, but very cool.

These were the tricks my grandparents used back in the '80's, when air conditioning was only for rich people.
 
#5 ·
I don't have much for a basement... basically just a cellar where the coal used to be shoveled in and the rest is sand bottom crawl space.

I've toyed with the idea of running my heat/cooling ducting a foot or so under the sandy bottom, but it's a lot of dirty nasty work to do on a house I plan on selling.

Insulating is on my list of things to do for sure. I think that is a big portion of why the house doesn't stay cool once I get it cool.

I may just toy with some cheap solar panels, a few big computer fans and a couple thermostats. Temp hits 80 in the attic, fans turn on... drops below, they turn off :)

That and a good layer of insulation should help ALOT...
 
#6 ·
Vents are waaaay cheaper than solar panels and fans, natural convection should draw the heat out of the attic if you have enough vents in the soffet, and gable ends. Of one of those wind blown turbines that pull air out of attic when there's a little breeze, and they are cheap as well. Spend less, get more.....
 
#7 ·
1) The one thing I've always thought someone could make millions on would be white roof tiles. Black-colored objects, or any dark color for that matter, absorb energy (aka heat), whereas light-colored objects reflect energy.

Paint your shingles white, or cover them with a light-colored object. Perhaps a sheet or tarp that is a few inches off of the roof itself to allow airflow underneath to fan any heat it may still absorb.

2) AC units work as dehumidifiers just as much as they cool. You can notice a huge difference between 90 degrees at 80% humidity and 90 degrees at 30% humidity. It's a LOT more tolerable at the lower humidty.
Invest in a simple dehumidifier. You also will have destilled water that comes out of it.
 
#12 ·
1) The one thing I've always thought someone could make millions on would be white roof tiles. Black-colored objects, or any dark color for that matter, absorb energy (aka heat), whereas light-colored objects reflect energy.

Paint your shingles white, or cover them with a light-colored object. Perhaps a sheet or tarp that is a few inches off of the roof itself to allow airflow underneath to fan any heat it may still absorb.
Check out the Aztec line of ceramic coatings.


http://www.icc-astec.com/roofs/asphalt-roofs.aspx


I know that two coats on my mothers mobile home roof in WV reduced inner temps by 18-20 degrees, and her electric bill by half.

(the salesman dipped a 1/2"x3" metal strip in it and heated it to straw color while holding on to the dipped end)
 
#13 ·
I actually used the exhaust blower from a stove hood vent and cut a hole in the trap door for the attic access and bolted it to it and ran power to it. Helps to suck the heat out. The access is at the top of the stairs, and I put a small fan at the top of the door jam downstairs to push the hot air into the stairwell and up to the exhaust fan.

When I have the fans blowing in downstairs, and out up stairs you can feel a strong wind while on the stairway. I definitely have significant flowthrough!
 
#10 ·
I've got a new ductless split system, which kicks ass. It's like 23 seer, and as quiet.. no 'quieter' than a mouse.. it runs at about 1/2 the amp (load) as the old Trane, ducted system that I had and that doesn't even include the 1/2hp blower fan in the old system...

I DO wish I had sprung for the multi-port unit (has multiple indoor units for each rooom/area, but a common outdoor unit which runs at variable speeds, according to load. Same as my single-port system does) which would probably make more sense in your larger house.

I would highly reccomend one of these new ductless systems!
 
#11 ·
Maybe it was already suggested but.. have you called in a AC service guy and check your system? Some of the older AC systems didn't have a dryer in the freon line and just a little moisture in the system could be enough to screw up your AC. Partial blocked/dirty coils also can cause poor AC efficiency. Of course there's also chances that your freon is low and needs to be recharged.

Some times home systems aren't properly sized, too small a unit and it will need to run constantly. Just as bad.. a system that's too large. The AC unit needs to run long enough to dehumidify the air in order to make your home comfortable.

What are you paying per KWH?
 
#16 ·
Pity you can't have a secondary roof over your roof, sort of like a house gazebo. It would sound like the hail of the damned each time it rained, unless it had a coating on it. But it would take a lot of the heat, create an insulating air barrier between your present roof and the other.

On the other hand, it's not a ROOF solar fan, but one that may fit the bill! =D
Sixty bones, and though I can't find it now, there's others like it on the market.

http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20080429/solar-powered-cordless-fan-uses-the-sun-to-keep-you-cool/

Oooo... here's a whole page of fun!

http://cantechnologies.in/Solar-Fan.html

Good luck! Sometimes I wonder if 'cooling' should be more held in esteem than 'warming' to a prepper type person. SO easy to put a warm sweater on, and then layer on the blankies. Really hard to strip down once you get to the skin.
 
#17 ·
I own a hvac biz, 1st check your filter, then make sure both the indoor and outdoor coils are clean, then check the vanes or fins of the indoor blower wheel to make sure they are clean, if all that is good then check the temp difference between the return air and supply air at the furnace if everything is working there should be about 20 degrees between the two if not you may need freon. Something you could try is to add some more return air to the system, cut a second intake grill somewhere in the return duct.
 
#18 ·
If you think you can do the work or know someone with the tools and knowledge to install a new system I would be willing to send you a new system whole sale cost plus shipping. Get a model and serial number and zip code to me and I will work up a price. If you plan on selling the house, a new system will increase the resale value and lower your operating cost.
 
#19 ·
That's a very generous offer... It's definitely appreciated. I'm not sure I'm in the market even at wholesale prices, but it wouldn't hurt to check. I've got a buddy with his own trucking company and I may be able to get him to pick it up on one of their trips. :thumb:

I'll try to get some info to you in a day or two. Thanks
 
#22 ·
temporarily you can get a styro-foam cooler and cut two holes in the top of lid and put it back on the cooler. one hole for a small flexible vent pipe, about 12" or so. Seal the cracks with duck tape and that will hold vent in place. cut the other hole for a small electric fan, maybe 8-10" fan... place fan face down in the hole and plug it up. fill cooler about 3/4 full of ice and turn fan on. you can see this on youtube but it will blow air out the vent about 55 degrees.
 
#26 ·
In the days before AC, homes were built with large covered porches around the perimeter to keep the sun/heat off the house. They also incorporated large windows all around the structure that would capture crosswinds and allow them to pass thru the house. On hot summer evenings they would sleep on the porches. Newer home construction shifted against these features when contained climate systems became available.
 
#28 ·
1. I painted my roof white with limewash. Just lime from Home Depot + water, until it was pancake thickness, and applied it with a broom. Dropped temperatures in the house by A LOT, it washes off over time. I did it two years ago, and need to re-apply, but some say it cuts their AC bill by 22%. It sure cut ours down.

2. Cool the room you are in-

3. Build a solar air conditioner. I'm working on this and will be updating my solar ice maker thread (here tonight, but due to cost I'm going to be bulding a zeolite (water filtering chemical, super safe and cheap) and water system, similar to the one written about here, and possibly stick a cheap car radiator (about $30) in the fridge outside, and set up a pump to bring the cool water inside and run it across some fans, like in point #2.

Hope that's helpful, I'm doing the same thing- trying to nurse along an elderly and kinda crappy air conditioner and get myself further off-grid while doing so.
 
#30 ·
Token

I painted my roof white with limewash. Just lime from Home Depot + water, until it was pancake thickness, and applied it with a broom. Dropped temperatures in the house by A LOT, it washes off over time. I did it two years ago, and need to re-apply, but some say it cuts their AC bill by 22%.

What type of roofing do you have? Have you noticed any chemical reaction?
 
#33 ·
I painted my roof white with limewash. Just lime from Home Depot + water, until it was pancake thickness, and applied it with a broom. Dropped temperatures in the house by A LOT, it washes off over time. I did it two years ago, and need to re-apply, but some say it cuts their AC bill by 22%.

What type of roofing do you have? Have you noticed any chemical reaction?
I did a crazy amount of research before I did this (if you've seen some of my research posts, you'll know what I am talking about- four months of material science journal reading, etc). I have an asphalt shingle roof. The good news is that limewash does not damage asphalt roofs, or metal roofs. I don't recall any other type, but it should be OK- this is a technique that is used on most roofs in the mediterranean and the caribbean, and it's safe to use if you are doing rain catchment systems for drinking water as well. It will actually extend the life of your roof because it won't go through the temperature extremes that it would if it was dark.

People who are very serious about preserving fairly fragile buildings prefer lime wash vs paint- the people who maintain World Heritage Buildings, and some of the castles and such for the Royal Preservation Society (something like that) in England. If it helps thousand year old buildings that are fairly fragile last longer, it will probably not be too bad on Home Depot shingles, you know?

There were three reasons I did a lime wash instead of one of the fantastic elastomeric white coatings on my roof.

1. I didn't want to trap humidity in my attic or roof and was worried about the roof system collapses you can get with elastomeric roof coatings (they are rare, but can happen). I live in a humid area and do NOT want humidity building up under the roof to get all black-mold nasty. Elastomeric paints do not breathe, limewash DOES.

2. The entire process for my roof cost under $50, including TSP to wash the roof down with first, and a mixing attachment I got for a drill to make mixing the lime was easier, that I lost in my garage almost immediately. I ended up mixing it in free frosting buckets from wall mart with a stick. It's REALLY basic technology. The elastomeric cool roof paints are freaking SUPER expensive.

3. If I don't like it, then all I had to do is mix up some TSP and scrub the roof off with it. With the elastomeric paints, there is no easy undo.

I did it the first year we lived in our house, so I don't have any hard data on how much it saved on our air conditioning costs in general, but the one bit of the roof I left dark over the garage leaves wavy lines of heat in the air, and the roof stays pretty cool. I noticed a huge difference when I was up there painting the roof, right away. I have been very happy with the results thus far, and I am pretty sure we're saving around 20% off our power bill.

If I get a few requests I can write up the whole thing and re-dig up my research, it was two years ago and saved on a laptop that I don't have anymore, so it would be a bit of a pain. You can google it and find a lot of information, start searching for "cool roof" and go from there.

Any time you do the ice in the cooler thing or use water to cool, you introducing moisture or humidity into the area, a/c is about dehumidifying the area. Painting your roof white may work but then you have a white roof that sticks out like a sore thumb. I can't say it enough insulate,insulate, then insulate some more, then have your a/c sized properly. Support your local HVAC guy, we gotta eat too.
Yep, from the air, my roof sticks out like a sore thumb.



From the street, however, it's not so bad because of my trees. If I give people directions and tell them it's the house with the white roof, they go past it two or three times.



Not everyone has the luxury of having fully grown trees out front, but I can promise you, it's not so bad.

I once read a post from someone who was, I think, well past the point of paranoia but calling himself a prepper, who was afraid of keeping chickens for fear that people with heat seeking goggles and helicopters will find him and take his chickens. I'm really not worried about a freaking air assault on my suburban spread.

The next thing I am planning on doing is getting some attic foil from these guys http://atticfoil.com/ and attaching it to my rafters in my attic, which is going to be a crappy miserable job, but it looks like I can pretty easily do my roof for under $200 including shipping.

I know that HVAC guys have to eat too, I do what I can to support my local tradesman, but I'm a DIY kinda gal, and I don't want to rely on ANYONE. Also, HVAC guys are expensive. :)

If I can reduce my need to consume so much electricity to keep my house comfortable in the summer with a few simple, cheap options, that will drop my power bill by almost a thousand dollars a year, and make me more self- reliant in case there's a power grid failure or TSHTF, where I can stay in place comfortably even in the 108 degree weather we had yesterday WITHOUT my traditional A/C unit, I'm better off. It's cheaper, it's better for the environment, it makes me more independent from the grid and better prepared. I'm not going to sacrifice that so I can put myself in the position of being dependent on someone else, no matter how awesome they are.
 
#31 ·
Any time you do the ice in the cooler thing or use water to cool, you introducing moisture or humidity into the area, a/c is about dehumidifying the area. Painting your roof white may work but then you have a white roof that sticks out like a sore thumb. I can't say it enough insulate,insulate, then insulate some more, then have your a/c sized properly. Support your local HVAC guy, we gotta eat too.
 
#32 ·
LOL... that's like saying I should keep my landline telephone so the phone guy can eat to :upsidedown:

How about since you are an HVAC guy, you come up with some creative ways to minimize energy use? Still do the job you are doing for those who want/need traditional AC, but create another line for new ways of doing it.

You are right, humidity does raise the "feels like" temperature and can create issues in your house if it gets to high.

For the fan cooler, you could easily combat the issue. Here is how I would improve the fan cooler.

First I'd start of using a cooler instead of a bucket. Then I would place the pump externally. The pump itself will generate heat to move water and work against what you are going for. Also, make a shelf for the cooler and pump to keep them level with the fan. The pump will work more effeciently without head pressure.

I would also make a drip tray below the coils on the fan. The cold coils will condense the moisture in the air and the drip tray will collect the water. Maybe you can drain the water from the drip tray out a window or down a drain?

Maybe even experiment with some dry ice... If you only plan on using this when you are home to cool you off, you could pick up some dry ice on the way home, add it to the cooler and keep things cool for several hours. However, I don't know how much dry ice costs, or how cold it will keep the water. It very well may freeze the water in the cooler if there isn't enough volume of water flowing. You could either add alcohol to the water, or salt and lower the freezing point of the water, but you would have to get a pump made for saltwater to do that. You may also run into the issue of ice forming on the outside of the fan hose, but that might not be so bad :)

Speaking of lower temps... you could take 2 litters and fill them with salt water and freeze them over night then use them in the cooler when you get home.

Don't you love how one idea spawns so many more! If only I had time to try a fraction of the things I think of everyday :confused:
 
#35 ·
You've allayed most of my concerns.

Guess I'll bee making a big box run shortly :D:
I just checked, the bag I got was Hydrated Lime Type S. It looks like it's gone up in price to $8.50 around here for the 50 lb bag, two years ago it was around $6.00

You will need to make sure your roof is wet before you put it on, or it won't stick right- we kept a hose up there with us and just sprayed it down.

It works best if it cures slowly, I think 75 degrees or so is the best temperature but I'll have to look it up again. Here is some linky goodness:

My Inspiration- the article that got me started.
Good Lime Wash Primer
This Old House talking about lime on roofs in Bermuda for cachement
Forum link to other people who have done this to show I'm not alone in my Mad Science weirdness.
Permaculture list where someone else id doing what I am doing here. Please keep in mind this gentleman is doing things very differenatly from how I did them, because I wanted the top-best-possible results (leaving the lime in water for two days, etc), while he just wanted to get it done quick.

Lime wash is incredibly forgiving, it's really hard to massively screw up.

What else. Oh yes, it looks almost clear when you get it wet, but when it's dry it gets more opaque, so when you apply it, do 2-3 coats. If you've ever done regular paint, it will look WRONG, but just keep tossing on thinner layers and when it dries, it will be a uniform, sparkly white. The way lime hardens, it actually forms in a crystal structure that bounces light away.

You can pre-mix the lime in buckets and store it for a month or two before you use it, if you are waiting for dry/clear weather. Don't apply it when it's going to rain, not only will it streak but if it splashes up on your bricks it's a PAIN to wash off (ask me how I know).

My house is around a thousand square feet, I needed two bags worth of lime to make enough lime wash. Make more than you think you will need. It takes two days for the lime to hydrate enough for you to use it, so you'll need to make a lot of it in advance. You can't just mix more up if you run low on limewash day (hence the unfinished spot I've used as a temperature gauge).

Do the side facing the street FIRST. I did it last because I wanted practice, but I ended up really tired and sort of half-assed it, and it does not look as nice as it could have if I'd done it when I was fresh.

I used an old push broom to apply it. You might want to get a paint brush for doing some trim work to keep everything looking tidy. You can also use a paint roller, it's really not fussy with how it goes on.

One thing I noticed right away is that the yard is cooler too- it does help with the heat island effect.
 
#36 ·
I'm in a similar situation.... last year my CA took a dump. I learned just how bad this place gets without help!!!!

I live in a Mobile Home with dark grey METAL siding and a near black METAL roof! In otherwords.... this is doing me FANTASTIC FAVORS in the winter time, but it's turning my place into Heat Stroke Heaven during the summer months.

Just to give you an example.... last week of April.... the temps were only in the higher 50's, but it was TOTAL SUN.... not a cloud of shadow in the sky. My interior was already hitting 90's!!! I'm talking Easy Bake Oven!!!!! (not an ounce of trees or shade)

Right now I have 2 5,000 BTU's which is not enough.... but I got to say... is it working?

Yes and No.... it's keeping the place about 2 degrees lower than the outside temp. Which means, if it's 95 outside, it's 93 inside. Your 1st comment should be... "it's failing you!"

No it's not.... without the 2 window AC units.... 95 full sun outside would be 120 INSIDE.... therefore... at 93.... IT'S WORKING!
 
#39 ·
Oh darling, let me give you the Big Mac Daddy of How To Fix That Somewhat Cheap.

Go to Home Depot or similar. Get a bunch of rebar. Get a bunch of electrical conduit- it's super cheap. Get the METAL- not plastic (mine failed due to the plastic ones) joiners, and get some nylon rope.

Pound the rebar half way into the ground. I like 6-8 ft rebar for this. Build a frame with the conduit so that it goes up over your walls- you can even buid it so that it goes over the roof of your house. Make netting over your conduit. Slide the poles over your rebar- now it's not going anywhere, even in REALLY nasty wind storms.

Plant cucumbers, hops, or passionfruit vines near the trellis. Those vines will ALL go over your house in one summer, the big leaves will shade it and keep it cool.

This video shows what I am talking about on a smaller scale, but I know hippies that do this and make geodesic domes out of conduit + rebar for drum circles and such, and it makes all the difference in the world.



I wish I'd seen his video before I made mine, I used the plastic corners and it was a failure last year, but I have some of these on the south side of my house and they make a HUGE difference. I'm thinking I should also do it for the west side of my house, the garage.

The conduit is cheap- like, a buck or two for a ten foot length. The rebar would be the most expensive part of the project. That will put your house in the shade, and then you won't have to live in temperatures like that.

It hasn't been below 90F daytime/115F feels like in 2 weeks here.
Guess I'll have to wait till fall, will be doing it ASAP.
I live in the county and quite frankly could give a rats ask what my roof looks like LOL.

Thanks again bro :thumb:
You know, it's pretty forgiving stuff. I did all the nifty little tricks and mine's lasted almost three years looking pretty good, but slap some on now, and slap another coat on in the spring. No reason for you to not get the benefits for a full year, through the heat of the summer, because I'm a perfectionist.

I'm thinking seriously of ignoring my own advise and doing another coat this weekend anyway. :D:

If you don't care about it looking perfect for the PTA moms coming to your house for a few years, don't worry about making it perfect. Just grab some, slap it on, and do it.
 
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