The Law is.....

[believer0119]

Originally Posted by ann

You were talking about WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS TO DO YES?

Ann, just read what I wrote above. I'm not going to respond to antagonism. I responded at this time to the best of my ability if you look above a few posts ago.

[ActionJackson]

=armourbearer;5059335]While I'm not "Jewish" or belong to the HRM I find your choice of pix here very disrespectful. Why?

His physical body was of the tribe of Judah shared with Levite (King and Priest). The man in the pic has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. He chose to appear with his particular hair style and garb. How is showing a picture he clearly posed for disrespectful in any way?

Our Saviour, God in the flesh, chose to reveal Himself to the world as a Jewish man, who was born, lived and died in the Jewish culture/context.

Christ appeared as a member of the tribe of Judah as a means to fulfill His promise to Abraham and to fulfill the Prophecy that He would be a King. On of the one side of His family was the fleshly line of Judah. On the other side of His Family is the Holy Spirit. The latter is far more significant than the former. We're all born of the flesh but the flesh profits nothing. It's His Word that are spirit & life:

John 6:63, "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

He spoke Hebrew/Aramaic, went to the synagogue to read Torah, etc. etc.

He spoke Hebrew, Aramaic, and likely Greek. More importantly, Acts 2 reveals that He can be understood in any language. He's not limited to just one or two languages.

His entire mission was to ransom
the lost sheep of the House of Israel, as promised in the Hebrew Scriptures.

To ransom/redeem lost Israel was a very significant aspect of His advent on earth but it wasn't His "entire mission." His mission also included "sheep not of this fold." He also conquered death as revealed by His resurrection. He also replaced the Old Covenant with the blood of the New Covenant -- His blood. He also came to teach the importance, significance, and power of faith. Ultimately, even folks who are not of the tribes of Israel benefited by His death, burial, and resurrection so that portion of His ministry is also a significant portion of His mission.

He also promised to return to physically to reign over Jerusalem and restore Israel/Judah to their rightful place.

Greater yet, He promised to establish His Kingdom on earth. "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God." Non-Israelites will be present in His Kingdom. I personally believe He will restore the earth to Eden-like conditions and we know that no Israelite or Judahite ever set foot in Eden. Adam and Eve were not Israelites.

Even animals will be present in His Kingdom:

Isaiah 11:6, "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them."

The woman of Samaria thought God was done with the Jews also and here's Messiah's reply to her:

John 5:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

And Paul reminds us of this:

Ro 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

John 15:5, "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."

According to Scripture Israel's glorious future awaits them.

For several references on this see:

Deut. 4:30; 28:64; 30:3; Ezek. 37:11-14; Isa. 43:5-6

According to Scripture a glorious future awaits all "followers of Christ" -- Christians -- the Church.

John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

The promises above are not based on DNA or nationality but on belief vs. non-belief.

[Standox]

Originally Posted by ann

Was God a liar when He commanded the Levites to work on the Sabbath?
Was God a liar when He said the Levites had no inheritance with Israelites?

Was God a liar when He commanded the Levites to work on the Sabbath?

no

Was God a liar when He said the Levites had no inheritance with Israelites?

no

[Caneman]

Originally Posted by armourbearer

While I'm not "Jewish" or belong to the HRM I find your choice of pix here very disrespectful. Why?

Our Saviour, God in the flesh, chose to reveal Himself to the world as a Jewish man, who was born, lived and died in the Jewish culture/context.

He spoke Hebrew/Aramaic, went to the synagogue to read Torah, etc. etc.

His entire mission was to ransom
the lost sheep of the House of Israel, as promised in the Hebrew Scriptures.

He also promised to return to physically to reign over Jerusalem and restore Israel/Judah to their rightful place.

The woman of Samaria thought God was done with the Jews also and here's Messiah's reply to her:

John 5:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

And Paul reminds us of this:

Ro 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

According to Scripture Israel's glorious future awaits them.

For several references on this see:

Deut. 4:30; 28:64; 30:3; Ezek. 37:11-14; Isa. 43:5-6

alright, few get it so i will explain my intentions for posting the picture of the Jewish Orthodox Rabbi...

first, contrary to the haters of my post of this picture, I have a high level of respect and love for the Jewish people, which includes Rabbis. I see the Rabbis and the passion they have to serve God, and I am in awe - now that is out of the way...

second, the picture has absolutely nothing to do with the Jewish people, who i have just stated my admiration for... but rather, the picture is a message to some of the Christians, or other seekers of Jesus Christ, who are on this forum and exhorting us all as Christians to follow some select Jewish laws, or all of them, as a means to please God...

third, the message is this: if you as a Christian believe that God is pleased by following the customs, traditions, or laws of the Jews as an add on or replacement for total and absolute faith in Jesus Christ then you are preaching a deception!

fourth, if you want to follow select laws of the Torah to please God then be like the Jewish Rabbi who follows meticulous details about every aspect of his life, so that he can attempt to follow those laws in order to please God at every waking moment of his life... all the way to the manner in which you groom your beard, the color of your clothing, covering your head, moving around when you pray, and not even typing out G-d's name in full, etc., etc., etc., if you want to preach some of the law then you better preach every letter of the law, and you better fulfill it to every exacting detail or you are a complete failure in God's eyes

as a Christian, God does not see our works in the law as good fruit, He is only pleased by our faith in Jesus Christ by abiding in Him to bear fruit, aka "loving one another", anything else is sin to Him

Christianity really is this simple, you don't need to add on the laws of the Torah to it in order to please God:

John 3 "23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

[Standox]

Originally Posted by Caneman

alright, few get it so i will explain my intentions for posting the picture of the Jewish Orthodox Rabbi...

first, contrary to the haters of my post of this picture, I have a high level of respect and love for the Jewish people, which includes Rabbis. I see the Rabbis and the passion they have to serve God, and I am in awe - now that is out of the way...

second, the picture has absolutely nothing to do with the Jewish people, who i have just stated my admiration for... but rather, the picture is a message to some of the Christians, or other seekers of Jesus Christ, who are on this forum and exhorting us all as Christians to follow some select Jewish laws, or all of them, as a means to please God...

third, the message is this: if you as a Christian believe that God is pleased by following the customs, traditions, or laws of the Jews as an add on or replacement for total and absolute faith in Jesus Christ then you are preaching a deception!

fourth, if you want to follow select laws of the Torah to please God then be like the Jewish Rabbi who follows meticulous details about every aspect of his life, so that he can attempt to follow those laws in order to please God at every waking moment of his life... all the way to the manner in which you groom your beard, the color of your clothing, covering your head, moving around when you pray, and not even typing out G-d's name in full, etc., etc., etc., if you want to preach some of the law then you better preach every letter of the law, and you better fulfill it to every exacting detail or you are a complete failure in God's eyes

as a Christian, God does not see our works in the law as good fruit, He is only pleased by our faith in Jesus Christ by abiding in Him to bear fruit, aka "loving one another", anything else is sin to Him

Christianity really is this simple, you don't need to add on the laws of the Torah to it in order to please God:

John 3 "23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

i appreicate your post

first a Jew would never put his traditions on other people especially as a stipulation for salvation

second no Jew believes salvation is from Law

third if Christians try and burden you with Law then they dont understand Law

forth no Rabbi would ever teach that to please God these things must be done, what pleases God is what God does, kindness! and that is what is taught

and last but not least ya,ll are big on loving your fellow, great thing but i never see it here and i rarely see it from my Christians friends or Churches in my town, ive read how the NT wants us to help others, it says the people brought gifts layed them at the Disciples feet and they distributed them as needed, every Church in my town takes from the poorest of the poor and sends it to haiti or wherever but it never gets put back in the community unless its a 1 block parking lot.

[Standox]

Originally Posted by ann

Can you show us this Standox. As I understand it the witnesses which were responsible to those PUT TO DEATH, to cast the first stone. That way if they lied they then were guilty of murder. The first stones were largest and were by design to kill the offender. then the rest of the community symbolically cast stones upon the offender.

The woman was guilty, as Christ said, he would not judge her. But he did to tell her to go and sin no more. Quite different than he said to those whom he healed physically heh? He always told them their physical healings were the forgiveness of sin.
Moral of the story IMO. Forgive those which sin against you, God will forgive your sins as well.

Deu 17 spells it out plainly, and it adds that a judge that goes against the Sanhedrin shall be put to death as well, vs 8 in mine

[ann]

Originally Posted by Standox

Deu 17 spells it out plainly, and it adds that a judge that goes against the Sanhedrin shall be put to death as well, vs 8 in mine

Deuteronomy 17 says

2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

I stand by my post standox. The witnesses were the ones to cast the first stones. Jesus simply told that COURT, to go ahead and carry out the law on the woman. The witnesses probably were paid, like Judas which IS CAUSE FOR THEIR OWN GUILT. The man probably a Roman citizen, which was not under their jurisprudence, LIKE PAUL was even though a JEW, had dual citizenship. Heck, having dual citizenship a man could even have "SET HER UP" to be caught, and not be under their jurisdiction.

[ann]

Originally Posted by Standox

it makes perfect sense no pun intended



not really, we were always commanded to take care of the widow, orphan, our poor brothers, our priests, we were commaned to oppress no one, an live in perfect peace with all our neighbors



am i a judge on the sanhedrin in Israel with a Temple an Urim and Tummin and everything else that goes along with it ? who,s going to question the witnesses crediibility?

B]

i disagree Jesus said sell your cloak and buy a sword

you were told wrong



by a inperfect human?

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach.


Deu 30:12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?"


Deu 30:13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?"


Deu 30:14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart(no it cant be in your heart at this time right? the New Covenent has not come) so you may obey it.

Deu 30:15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction.


Deu 30:16 For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

You do not need the urim and thummim to Judge for the death penalty under the law? You do need two eye witnesses, to corroborate each other.

[Standox]

The witness could stone after the judge says so at the gate

My point to 300 was none of this could be done if one thing was out of place

[Caneman]

Originally Posted by Standox

i appreicate your post

first a Jew would never put his traditions on other people especially as a stipulation for salvation

second no Jew believes salvation is from Law

third if Christians try and burden you with Law then they dont understand Law

forth no Rabbi would ever teach that to please God these things must be done, what pleases God is what God does, kindness! and that is what is taught

and last but not least ya,ll are big on loving your fellow, great thing but i never see it here and i rarely see it from my Christians friends or Churches in my town, ive read how the NT wants us to help others, it says the people brought gifts layed them at the Disciples feet and they distributed them as needed, every Church in my town takes from the poorest of the poor and sends it to haiti or wherever but it never gets put back in the community unless its a 1 block parking lot.

love isn't always a big warm fuzzy group hug sometimes love feels like a sharp stick in the eye, but if you are blind to begin with you would only feel it not understand it for what it really is...

[Texas Jon]

Originally Posted by Caneman

bigoted only because i don't agree with your interpretation of law?

No, it has nothing to do with me. It was bigoted because you posted a picture of a Hasidic man and made the assumption that he was trying to earn his salvation. How do you know he is trying to earn his salvation? That is your particular bias.

.

[Texas Jon]

Originally Posted by Standox

what i find funny is on here people are scholars, in real life a man like that would devour you in a Biblical debate, he would smash your views into meaningless nonsense, no one on here could sit with him for more than 5 minutes in a debate

Right on! (I might though...)

.

[Texas Jon]

Originally Posted by Standox

why attribute Law with doing it yourself? God does all things

Righteous! Amen! Say that, Standox!

.