Survivalist Forum banner

12 Volt interior lighting for home?

54K views 50 replies 31 participants last post by  arleigh 
#1 ·
Anyone ever attempt this? Seems like a great idea for cutting electric bill costs. Nowadays they have the LED 12 volt light fixtures; back in the 80's when we were RVing we had the "dual-light" fixtures which used the good old 1157 bulbs!

I always thought they put out a decent amount of light for what they were. I would guess that the LED's are even more efficient/bright.

I am thinking of designing a 12 Volt house lighting system using these fixtures powered by a few batteries which will recharge during the day using solar panels. Doesn't seem like it should be all that difficult to do...

Anyone have any experience with this at all?

Comments/suggestions welcome!
 
#15 ·
My whole house is wired for 12vdc...i have NO 120vac at all. I use RV fixtures that use car taillight bulbs. These will easiest to find when TSHTF.

Here is a link to my build. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=165121
LEDs are a great invention, but I find the spectrum grates on my eyes. The old school headlights were a nice way to go, but expensive and getting harder to find. Taillight bulbs are perfect IMO. Not to mention very easy to scavenge if need be.
 
#4 ·
I wired the whole house for 12vdc. RV water pump to supply pressurized water to both a shower and kitchen sink. I use Bosch 1000p hot water on demand unit that requires NO POWER....just LP. We also use 12vdc refrigerator/freezer and the wife is begging for a 12vdc microwave.
 
#5 ·
I just finished reading through your thread (for the most part, lol) Very inspiring indeed!

We have a double wide (24x48) on approx. 15 acres of woodland. It is in a valley with somewhat limited sun & not much wind. We would have enough sunlight to recharge batteries though, I am sure.

Would you have a link to the electrical boxes/power panel/junction box/etc. that you used? I am sure I could figure it out with a little trial & error, but if you already have the perfect setup I would appreciate the details.

At first I was just thinking of lighting, but now I am considering the fridge too after reading your thread. Also, the water pump; is that a pressurized system? How much pressure?
 
#8 ·
Normal incandescents are brighter per purchase dollar, but LEDs are cheaper per dollar running and live much longer lives. Just don't get cheapy LEDs, because you'll be disappointed by the light output as I recently found out. After experimenting for so long with LEDs out of other light fixtures (rope lights, LED bulbs, etc), I finally ponied up for 1W, 72 lumen component LEDs @ $7 each to experiment with and the difference is night and day: 4 of those LEDs will light most of my living room whereas 4 whole rope lights ($15/each) previously did not. The color change is nice too (harsh blue-white to warm white).

As for a complete solar/12v house system, it's not difficult, but does require a fair amount of investigation and work.
 
#10 ·
Can you tell me the brand of the LEDs you are using, and where you got them? I am currently working on designing a backup lighting system for my house and they sound like just the thing for it. I'll be starting really simple, a 15W panel, 1 deep cycle marine battery, charge controller. If I could run just 1 light to each of the 7 rooms, I would be a happy gal. Not that I'd have them all on at once - can only be in one room at a time.
Thanks.
 
#9 ·
Nothing wrong with 12 volt systems! If you've spent time in RVs, campers, ... 12 volt systems work great.
Even better since LED lighting has become common. Low voltage, very low current.
I could (theoretically) run my home off a car battery and some solar panels.
The heavy power usage would be heating and cooking. But that can be accomplished by our plentiful natural gas and coal reserves.

Check this guy's ideas out...

 
#11 ·
Nothing wrong with 12 volt systems! If you've spent time in RVs, campers, ... 12 volt systems work great.
Even better since LED lighting has become common. Low voltage, very low current.
I could (theoretically) run my home off a car battery and some solar panels.
The heavy power usage would be heating and cooking. But that can be accomplished by our plentiful natural gas and coal reserves.

Check this guy's ideas out...

YouTube - Simple Solar Homesteading: Introduction
That is a nice setup he has there, I am inspired by watching all these vids! I have been watching quite a few solar project vids over the past few days & one thing strikes me; why does everyone have a tangle/ "bird's nest" of wires, lol...

that bugs the heck out of me! sure, when you are setting up & experimenting that's okay, but the final install should be neat & clean. :cool:
 
#13 ·
You can actually run an entire home on 12VDC, as long as you know ho to do it...

The 12 VDC can also be used to step up to 120 volts if you need it for a certain appliance or even a TV, (Its all about OHMs Law. And calculations)
Like a door bell transformer.
You put 120 volts in and get 16volts out AC, (Now if you put 16 or 12 volts in you are going to get 110 to 120 volts back out.) You just need to make sure the correct size transformer for what you are powering up.
(LEDs are very efficient and use less electricity than incandescent and fluorescent lamps.)

Electricity is a great invention, and you can do allot with it. (It’s how you use it)
Also be careful some time if you get bit by the wrong voltage, you will not get a second chance.
(BE SAFE)
 
#14 ·
For LEDs, I typically suggest Nichia, Cree, and Lumileds, in that order. All three of these manufacturers make high quality LED die and phosphor combinations, which means you get efficient light of good quality. Now for LEDs, remember the keys are heat dissipation (yes, LEDs generate heat, and if you want them to last you need to get rid of it), and a DC constant current power supply. Basically, if you want to go this route, see if you can get a pre-made driver for your configuration. LEDs do NOT like AC power, and a little voltage over their design can mean a huge difference in current, it's easy to accidentally overdrive them and fry them.

If you do have some incandescent types, see if you can go with some halogens. Low voltage incandescent is more efficient than line voltage for incandescents, the same goes for halogen (which is more efficient than incandescent anyways). There are a ton of bulbs out there for landscape lighting which would work great in a low voltage lighting system.

One side note is that bare halogen capsules are a no-no... they occasionally pop, which can send hot quartz flying... so keep a globe / cover on it.

Last note, for now, is that when dealing with low voltage, use large wire, and if you're drawing a lot of power, you have to worry about voltage drop over distance.
 
#17 ·
I've thought about this a lot..off-setting electrical cost usage with some type of self-contained system. The problem is that a lot of providers have a minimum usage fee. In our circumstances, we are not running high-usage appliances, we don't have every light in the house on, we don't operate appliances during peak hours...we rarely exceed the minimum usage allocation...the summer being the exception, but not continuously 24/7...A/C when temperature-humidity is unbearable.

Where we live in Central, Shore Area of NJ, and with all of the restrictions in place as to what you CAN'T DO, with reference to BUILDING CODES and
CERTIFICATES OF OCCUPANCY, they make it impossible to engage in ANY off-grid living. Like I indicated, the POWER COMPANY has minimum usage fees.
The best one can do is try not to exceed that level. Its obvious that there is collusion among Government Agencies and POWER COMPANIES...its all about the money.

As an illustration of this...I never really looked into it because it never affected me, but I would not be surprised...proportedly, when Whitman was Governor it became ILLEGAL to live on a boat, moored/docked at a MARINA even though you pay the MARINA FEES and utilities hook-up fees, as your permanent residence...because you're not paying PROPERTY TAXES. You can live in a TRAILER PARK, but not at a MARINA.

I agree, especially in this current and inevitable economic melt-down, anything we can do to off-set rising costs is a plus for us...but what do you do when the system is so structured that you are restrained within parameters set up by CONTROLLING INFLUENCES? I know...move to a more accomodating area, but realistically, with the daily worsening of the economy, easier said than done.
 
#19 ·
Where we live in Central, Shore Area of NJ, and with all of the restrictions in place as to what you CAN'T DO, with reference to BUILDING CODES and
CERTIFICATES OF OCCUPANCY, they make it impossible to engage in ANY off-grid living. Like I indicated, the POWER COMPANY has minimum usage fees.
The best one can do is try not to exceed that level. Its obvious that there is collusion among Government Agencies and POWER COMPANIES...its all about the money.
Jersey North Shore area here. I read last year that the state government has instructed municipalities that they cannot forbid solar or wind power unless the construction is deemed completely unsafe. I don't have the exact information, but I was glad to see in the newspaper article that we weren't being shut out of the process entirely. If you can install your solar panels off the roof or if you use a VAWT that does not require a tall pole, you should be able to produce some of your own power. Of course, you need to research the exact conditions before you start anything, but there seems to be a way you can have your off grid power in NJ. (Unless, of course, they've changed their minds - as you know they do with sickening regularity.)

I would suggest that you not tie either system into the power grid. But, that's just my opinion. I don't believe the cost of that installation and all of the inspection hoohah is worth the payback from the power company for unused and returned power that you generate.
 
#18 ·
The kelvin to get is 6500K. It produces the light most like the sun. Doesn't matter which fluorescent, incandescent, or led you choose. But with the emitter types there are now I am a bit unclear as I have only seen them in flashlights. I don't want to spend a $100 per fixture.
 
#21 ·
True. My flashlight can put out a 100+ lumens in a practically perfect spectrum and it's only 2 3V lithiums. It uses what seems to be a spot of phosphor or something-surefire. They make the blue circular incandescent bulbs for say makeup in the bath and they also sell flourescent tubes (as well as the very small desk lamp fixture type) that produce purer light at a slightly higher cost. The led's though are very rare, so far. I used to love the clear incandescents though. Really old bulbs are pretty neat. American and all.
I worked at this house in malibu and the guy wanted all incandescents even though it was against code. Old school.
 
#22 ·
Im a full time RVer so take my opinions for what you will. I thought initially the 1157 fixtures were pretty cool and nice to have. They do a pretty good job for what they were designed to do. But they burn out fairly quickly and need to be replaced often. You dont notice this so much when your just camping on the week ends but once you start using them daily you will see exactly what I am talking about. They also create an amazing amount of heat for such a small bulb. This deteriorates the plastic fixtures and the wiring rather quickly. Again not so much something thats a factor on occasional use but on daily use its a whole nother story.

That being the case I am slowly but surely replacing all of my 1157 fixtures with super bright multi-LED fixtures. It elimenates all of the above complaints I have and provides a more intense lighting source. On top of that they use way less power to fire them up. In my humble opinion, LED's are the way to go in no uncertian terms.
 
#25 ·
Hey Guys as my name says I work for NAPA I manage the stores in the Caribbean and Latin america. In the Dominican republic every house has a battery bank wired into the house with a power inverter they use golf cart 6 volt battery and when the "city power" is on the inverter is charging the battery's. We sell them the batts but not the inverters. I will be over their next week if anyone has a interest I can get you the part number and manufacturer of the inverter and take a few pics. Just let me know
 
#29 ·
I will give everyone a great tip on how to get nice power inverters. Go to a scrap yard that recycles computers or a used computer store. Pick up an old UPS power supplies. They mainly always need batteries as they are just wetcell batteries. The batteries cost just as much as the power supplies themselves. If you open one up and pull the old battery out you can then hook that red and black connection to a battery or battery bank. I remind you to disable the beeping speaker inside of it or it will get real annoying really fast. Now you have a power supply for 120 volt ac that is regulated and ment to run for a long time you can even put this inline and use the 120volt cable that normally plugs into the wall as a charger for your battery bank as long as its 12 volt just remember it wont charge the bank as fast but it will top them off and keep them charged. I have tested this with putting a cigarette lighter adapter end on the red and black wires that used to go to the battery on the power supply worked fine I needed to use a dremel tool for something or something but yeah I paid $5.00 for each power adapter I got because they all need batteries.
 
#30 ·
You also get a free battery charger.

The Inverters will typically only be about 400 watts for a desktop UPS. More for a larger computer room unit.

As for wiring for 12V:
Be sure to do loss calculations.
If you pull any considerable amperage over a distance, you're going to need big gauge (read expensive) copper.
Otherwise, you'll be throwing power away in losses.
It's the reason that AC won over DC public utilities.
 
#31 ·
I have a 12V low voltage 2 wire system that I used to help a buddy install in high end
condos and homes in Toronto. 2 wires mounted 6 inches apart running the length of
room about 4 inches from the wall, and about 3 from the ceiling. A low voltage, low amperage
transformer handles regular 120v, and when the power goes out, I throw a 12v battery on it with
12v car lightbulbs. Alligator leads soldering to the bulbs. Move them to where you need them.
raise and lower them by spreading the alligator clips apart on each wire.. and yes, it passes code!!
Inspectors don't pass it unless it is.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=208846&highlight=toobboy
 
#33 ·
You've got to calculate the amperage you will draw.
Then, you can use a calculator like this to figure wire size and voltage drop:
http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html

For LEDs it shouldn't be that bad, but even they will add up.
I think the biggest drawback will be when human nature takes hold and you say, "Hey, I already have this wired. What if I tried to run appliance x".

IOW, think ahead about all your future use of such a system and wire it accordingly.
 
#36 ·
A used trailer could be a good buy if the price is right......think of the parts in it for going off grid

12 volt light fixtures

Battery converter

12 volt and/or propane fridge

Propane stove

And more

Me? We bought a motorhome and even parked at our property, it would be formidable in a shtf. It's got a propane ref, propane stove, solar panels, deep cycle batteries, 4kw Onan generator.
 
#37 ·
12 vdc lighting

if your interested id say do it,like others in here i too only use 12 vdc in my cabin any auto parts store has these lights and fixtures from 1 watt to the super bright b/u light replacements, and if you want a soft glow and not reading light the amber bulbs for front blinkers works great,i have a pair of these in my bedroom.
 
#39 ·
Is it possible to use the AC wires in my house as DC wires? Or are they different and won't transmit 12v?

If I open the fuse box and put a 12v source in place of the cirucit breaker, will that 12 v be transmitted to the matching wall plug in the house? Then I could tap that wall plug for 12v power.

Let me know if this is not feasible for some reason. I am not an electrician!
 
#40 ·
It's been awhile since this thread was first posted, so I will give some recommendations for newer good led bayonet style bulbs. I live off grid in a camper and these are what I use and they will fit in an RV style housing. I think they are 1156 style, at any rate the two little knobs on the base are equal distance from the tip. I have been using them daily for months and they seem to be holding up fine.

This one is 300 lumens, draws 5 watts and color is 3000k so it is sort of yellowish and is close to what an incandescent bulb color would be. Cost $11.99.



This one is 200 lumens, draws 1.8 watts and color is 6000k so it is more white light and because of this seems as bright as the other bulb. Cost $8.99. Because it costs less and uses less power while still seeming as bright as the bulb above, I would recommend this.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0099W8EXU/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1




There is no reason why it won't work, but it might break a few NEC codes. I would add a second distribution panel, then pull the wires from the existing panel and re-route them to the new panel. Make sure the main breaker is off first, and test wires with a test probe before you touch them anyway.

Home wiring is usually 12 gauge or 14 gauge. Find a chart online to determine how many amps the wire can carry considering how long the wires are and install a DC circuit breaker rated at less than that amount.
 
#41 ·
Full Time RV'er: LED bulbs/ Wiring

I just joined this board. I'm full time RV'ing with a family of 7, (only 5 of us now in a large toyhauler) for a short while as we prepare to build our next house. The 2013 RV we have is a top of the line and has many halogen 12V RV light receptacles in additional to the standard 12V auto style bulbs. The halogens have become problematic so I shopped at Home Depot and found a direct replacement 12V 2-pin Halogen that fit inside the receptacles. I'm typing under them now. The are certainly as bright as the 12V halogens, I believe were
Cree and cost about $11.00 each. I'm thinking I will install 12V lighting in my house I build on one panel for 12V, and then have a 240/120V panel to run the 120V/220V appliance we desire to use. We will keep our RV to full time in if we have a SHTF event.
Another Topic I wanted to address in this thread is the issue of copper wire. The church we attend just lost the main power box just our side of the utility service due to improper wiring sizing. I assisted the pastor is dealing with the contractors we had come look at the issue (during the severe cold weather we just had: very difficult to find anyone free...) and in negotiating the best solution we were on a budget and the topic of aluminum wire came up. On contractor said he had just wired in a hotel here in San Angelo Texas with 100% aluminum wire, but would only use copper himself if he wired his own home. He gave a very thorough and detailed discussion of why aluminum wire is not only code today, but has many advantages over copper: obviously it costs 1/3 being the biggest. He pointed that all power transmission lines have -always- been aluminum and that all the problems with aluminum wire in the 50's and 60's were due to improperly terminating them. Apparently aluminum wire needs wire nuts for example of a certain type metal inside different from wirenuts designed for copper. As well when you connect copper to aluminum you need a special connector. These are all commercially available today. Additionally, todays aluminum wire is 'hexagonal' not round, so that the strands have better contact to each other in the bundles. All commercial/military aircraft are wired aluminum... So after all this study, I'm convinced I will wire my house I'm to build in the new aluminum wire and save considerably over copper. The only real issue is if you hire a contractor to wire in aluminum, you need to ensure he is up to speed on how to terminate it/work with it, and should you have someone perform maintenance, you make sure he's working with aluminum routinely. Or get an aircraft mechanic..... Thats all they work with!
No flames on the aluminum wiring please, I won't respond. This is my research and I wanted to share it.
Peace out from West Texas.
Mark
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top