FerFal of "surviving in argentina" on radio Saturday night

[Wetwork]

Originally Posted by Nutty Old Geezer

If SHTF happens and there are millions of hungry people in the cities and burbs, do you think you can continue a normal country life? Can you provide 24/7 security? How many people do you think you can run off before you find one that refuses to leave? How many attacks could you survive? Granted that is worse case but however remote it is possible.

As much as I regret to say it, and as I mentioned before...the gov. will federalize the farms and ranches. And doing so it would be in their best interest to protect that food. How they do it or how they compensate the farmers and ranchers I don't know? If at all? But guaranteeeeee it's in a go-to-heck plan somewhere. But really who know's what those nitwits will try to do?

Now as far as a full blown, no gooberment anymore, anarchy. I think that will take quite a few years in this country in almost all situations I can think up. Even with a EMP/Nuke/Bio deal. Now years and years after the break-down, in my opinion it'll just be the wild west again. Posse's, ranch hands, and most likely all it would take is some folks strung up and left for all to see at the ranch borders and folks will stand down. But it depends on how close to large population centers those farms and ranches are. If all the fuel is gone, farmers and ranchers are going to have to scale so far back on operations that there will be very little chow to steal anyway. And after a full blown meltdown you mentioned there won't be milllions...they will either have froze, starved, or died from the heat with no water. I'm just speculating mind you. Just watching the latest disasters from the last twenty years, gooberment tried their best to control the masses, and the sheep just sat back bawlin with their hands out. I'd expect most of'em would croak before I'd have to do much. Especially clear out here in the boonies.-WW

[Lakota]

Originally Posted by Nutty Old Geezer

If SHTF happens and there are millions of hungry people in the cities and burbs, do you think you can continue a normal country life? Can you provide 24/7 security? How many people do you think you can run off before you find one that refuses to leave? How many attacks could you survive? Granted that is worse case but however remote it is possible.

Things get that bad and no one has a "normal" life. Nowhere is 100% safe. Not now, and especially not during a societal collapse. I like the odds a hell of a lot better living remotely with a group of families I know, trust, and love vs trying to survive among millions of hungry people who have no real allegiance. In that regard it's simple math. A city full of people who would attack you for what you have vs. a much smaller number that would actually make it out of the city.

I like Fernando. I think sharing his experiences in Argentina provides some good insight. I believe, as far as scenarios go, hyperinflation and the resulting high crime is very possible if not likely. For some people living in a small town may be their best bet. It's the assertion that surviving on a farm is fantasy that I have a problem with. There's plenty of precedence to the contrary. And the more self reliant you are the better off you are wherever you live.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Fernando get fed up and move to Ireland?

[bikerboyz]

If people think they can survive in a city or small suburb is crazy thinking. The mobs of people will run through your house like a hurricane, you won't know what hit you. Way too many people and most people live in a wood structure home which is far from safe. Where did prepping come from, I believe farmers, before the gov took our farm illegally that's how we lived as a kid. My 2 cents.

[Lakota]

Originally Posted by cbrons

Yeah, that is partially why mass migration out of cities could be a prob for the immediate suburbs.

This is essentially what Matt Bracken, the navy seal and author of enemies foreign and domestic talks about in another interview I did with him:

Matt Bracken on the Chris Bronson Show (12/08/12) - YouTube

Very interesting interview in light of Sandy Hook. He pretty much spelled it out. This one should be it's own thread.

[cbrons]

Originally Posted by Lakota

Very interesting interview in light of Sandy Hook. He pretty much spelled it out. This one should be it's own thread.

Feel free to start it

Actually if you are interested in more matt bracken, he rejoined the show a week later right after the Sandy Hook massacre specifically to talk about it.

http://cbrons.com/episode-003-12152012/

[Nutty Old Geezer]

I think we are talking about two different time periods here. At the beginning (where we are now) a farm is far better IMHO to be on. Slow decay the cities and burbs will be high stress but still able to provide a living. Living in a rural area while might be stressful you don't have the added stress of 5 million people around you doing the same. My stress while living in Houston are vastly different and much higher than when I moved back to the family place. Still some stress but lower amounts but different. Now I have sold the farm and moved to a small town of 3.5K. Actually a little less stress and again different. But not bad at all. Easy living.

Now toward the middle/end of this period is when I see problems living remote without lots of help providing security. When things start getting bad to the point of people doing without is when the nasties will start looking for a easier life. Farms then might become targets.

The last stage or period is if gov does fail. Then when nothing is moving (including food and fuel resupply) that is when the hordes will scatter looking for food and shelter. I don't think this seems likely but it is possible. Then it will be a Mad Max type time period. Who knows.

[Nutty Old Geezer]

Originally Posted by Lakota

Things get that bad and no one has a "normal" life. Nowhere is 100% safe. Not now, and especially not during a societal collapse. I like the odds a hell of a lot better living remotely with a group of families I know, trust, and love vs trying to survive among millions of hungry people who have no real allegiance. In that regard it's simple math. A city full of people who would attack you for what you have vs. a much smaller number that would actually make it out of the city.

I like Fernando. I think sharing his experiences in Argentina provides some good insight. I believe, as far as scenarios go, hyperinflation and the resulting high crime is very possible if not likely. For some people living in a small town may be their best bet. It's the assertion that surviving on a farm is fantasy that I have a problem with. There's plenty of precedence to the contrary. And the more self reliant you are the better off you are wherever you live.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Fernando get fed up and move to Ireland?

Although I cannot speak for him I believe the correct term is that he escaped just in time. Things are getting worse down there. The gov is trying to stop anyone from leaving with anything of value. Currency controls won't let you take your money with you. Dollars or gold are being outlawed. You have to turn it in and get the Argentine Peso in exchange. Guess what you can buy with those?

[KaBar67]

Originally Posted by Lakota

I did listen while I cooked a breakfast of eggs from my chickens. Grocery stores shut down and we still eat. Food prices get hyper inflated and we won't be selling jewelry to eat.

I can rely on my neighbors at the homestead (family), which isn't true about my neighbors at our house in town who turn a blind eye and cower when anything happens.

The houses aren't plush, but they're paid off. When the power goes out, we still have light. If it gets cold, we light a fire. If something breaks, we fix it.

You can balk at self reliance all you want, but my family has done well by it. When times are tough we still get by while others are crying for big sister to save them.

I do not balk at your self sufficiency at all. I applaud it and seek (in a lesser way) to emulate it. I do not garden to grow 100% of my food, just supplement. Do you buy chicken feed? Vitamins?

Like most of my neighbors I also can make substantial repairs including most recently, roof.

[Lakota]

Originally Posted by KaBar67

I do not balk at your self sufficiency at all. I applaud it and seek (in a lesser way) to emulate it. I do not garden to grow 100% of my food, just supplement. Do you buy chicken feed? Vitamins?

Like most of my neighbors I also can make substantial repairs including most recently, roof.

I apologize for coming off as combative.

We're not 100% self sufficient. We're constantly trying to be more so, but at this point... enough to survive if we have to be. I know a few people (and it's very rare) who've come really close. My Grandfather was full mountain man. I spent my summers with him growing up. His life wasn't as comfortable in some ways, but he lived pretty good. Personally I plan to enjoy luxuries that I can't DIY as long as they last.

I've lived both urban and rural throughout my life. Raised with a heavy influence of depression era farmers and WW2 vets, being self reliant was a dominant theme. Even those in the city grew, raised, hunted, and stored a lot of their own food. Did their own construction, auto mechanics, clothing etc.. It really helps make more of less and maintain quality of life during tough times.

We have a decent piece of land and simple modest houses. Chickens, goats, horses, and gardens. Some live there full time, some part time, and some just vacation. At this point, I'm working to change careers and live there full time. My major motivation is enjoyment. I prefer that life. I don't have a lot of anxiety about the future. However I am concerned about my family. I witnessed the Rodney King riots. I know the potential. In the next few years we're planning to sell the homestead and all move to a new area with a better growing season. Achieving that without taking on debt requires a sacrifice in lifestyle.

Historically there have been times, like the frontier era, where people did live in towns for security. And I hear others talk about tight knit neighborhoods where they have eachother's backs. I've had a couple really good neighbors living in town, but in general that's been the opposite of my experience. If you have that you're lucky. I've seen a lot of crime, violence, and predation. My experience of rural living has been better.

We can contemplate scenarios that favor different circumstances. I pray to God the world remains fairly civil when the house of cards falls. I'm just going with what I think is best for us. Which is a few families living close on rural land away from metro areas. Not telling everyone to abandon the cities. Everyone's circumstance is different and they have to decide for themselves.

[KaBar67]

Check out the Podcast "In the Rabbit Hole" if you get a chance. They have a few shows where they mention prepping for the most likely scenario first, then to a lesser degree for the least likely scenario.

For us, that means economic collapse first, then chemical attack and sliding down to nuclear attack. At the "more likely" scenario, I believe that society will remain intact but get much hard, like the Depression on steroids. I'm thinking 1910's, or at worst, 1880's. I do not see going to the stone age. I could be totally wrong.

FERFAL speaks to that. I see working more jobs, longer hours for less pay as more likely than becoming a subsistence farmer. Security will be an issue, but not roving gangs like Mad Max. Some level of trade and commerce will always continue.