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Old 02-06-2008, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by neal View Post
Just a thought, but instead of thinking about a cabin in the woods, having an adobe shelter in a desert or semi-desert region is worth considering. If the region and terrain is uncomfortable, few people will venture in. Since the idea is to only stay in it a year, a simple adobe structure would be sufficient if it included food and water.

Nice things about living in the desert: no hunters, almost no trespassers, no one believes that food exists in the desert, few people are strong enough to endure desert life, fewer people are strong enough to walk distances in deserts, almost no one thinks that desert survival is possible, and most people are scared of scorpions, rattlers, and foot long Chinese centipedes.

The best survival location might be the one that no one else wants.
There are people that live in these houses in the desert called "earth ships"
The houses actually collect rain water and use it and re-use it 4 times before it's treated and released outside, they power up with wind and solar, they grow food IN the house, and heating/cooling is handle by sheer design of the house! The house heats and cools itself using the sun and the earth. Earthships are 100% self sustaing. Check out Earthship.net and you'll be amazed!
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 230gr
In general, the reason that desert are not populated is that can not support anything but a very tiny population. If the event lasts longer than your supplies, you could be in real trouble. The deserts resource could be easily overtaxed and you would be forced to become a refugee yourself.
Not to say it could not be done but you would need an exceptional location for the area and they have got to be few and far between.
Exactly my point: most people believe that a desert region cannot support anything but a few people at most. Most people canít survive in such a region, and few people will even try, which makes it a good location for seclusion.

Of the semi-desert and desert regions Iíve seen in the U.S.A., I spotted good locations in all. Beyond a year, and if the owner has made proper plans, s/he could survive almost indefinitely. So could whole communities if they made similar preparations. Like Spam70 commented, food can be grown indoors, and with very little water. I currently grow a portion of my food indoors without sunlight or lighting.

Even in regions like Arizona and Nevada where the average annual rainfall is around 7 inches, a 500 square foot roof would supply about 2,200 gallons a year, which is more than enough for 2-3 people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam70
There are people that live in these houses in the desert called "earth ships"
The houses actually collect rain water and use it and re-use it 4 times before it's treated and released outside, they power up with wind and solar, they grow food IN the house, and heating/cooling is handle by sheer design of the house! The house heats and cools itself using the sun and the earth. Earthships are 100% self sustaing. Check out Earthship.net and you'll be amazed!
Thanks for the link Spam. The earthship idea is what I had in mind for long-term, but a basic hole in a hill with adobe facing would be good enough for a year. Iíd like to see all housing built like earthships and other earthen styles; it sure would cut down on fossil fuel use and even drive gasoline prices down. Iíve always enjoyed visiting Indian ruins where itís cool in summer and warm in winter.

Before having to leave my land I was making plans for an earthship type of shelter in the hills on the landís west section. My current plans are leaning towards moving to a forsaken desert region where I can live out my years in peace and comfort. One thing nice about unwanted land is that it can bought for under $200.00 an acre (I bought one 6 acre spot for $200.00 total).
Old 02-10-2008, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neal View Post
Exactly my point: most people believe that a desert region cannot support anything but a few people at most. Most people canít survive in such a region, and few people will even try, which makes it a good location for seclusion.

Of the semi-desert and desert regions Iíve seen in the U.S.A., I spotted good locations in all. Beyond a year, and if the owner has made proper plans, s/he could survive almost indefinitely. So could whole communities if they made similar preparations. Like Spam70 commented, food can be grown indoors, and with very little water. I currently grow a portion of my food indoors without sunlight or lighting.

Even in regions like Arizona and Nevada where the average annual rainfall is around 7 inches, a 500 square foot roof would supply about 2,200 gallons a year, which is more than enough for 2-3 people.



Thanks for the link Spam. The earthship idea is what I had in mind for long-term, but a basic hole in a hill with adobe facing would be good enough for a year. Iíd like to see all housing built like earthships and other earthen styles; it sure would cut down on fossil fuel use and even drive gasoline prices down. Iíve always enjoyed visiting Indian ruins where itís cool in summer and warm in winter.

Before having to leave my land I was making plans for an earthship type of shelter in the hills on the landís west section. My current plans are leaning towards moving to a forsaken desert region where I can live out my years in peace and comfort. One thing nice about unwanted land is that it can bought for under $200.00 an acre (I bought one 6 acre spot for $200.00 total).
I'm trying to relocate to AZ myself, the climate is good for sore bones and respiratory systems.
Old 05-02-2008, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasrandall View Post
a cargo container can have 4 feet of dirt over it with no bracing needed.
there is also a very good book called"the $50 and up underground house book"
why not dig a hole and pour a 12" pad on the bottom, set your container on top of pad.
Surround the perimeter of the cargo container with cinderblock reinforced with concrete/rebar to 12" over the top. Make 2x4 reinforcing inside the container to support the roof . Pour 12-24" concrete on top.
Pour soil on top of concrete and backfill. Plant a garden on top.
After the concrete is dry, i would think that the 2x4 supports inside could be removed safely.

peace
al
Old 01-03-2009, 02:44 PM
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I find this topic extrememly interesting because I also had many of these same questions and thoughts. Are there any new developments or ideas with mangyhyena on this topic?
Old 01-03-2009, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangyhyena View Post
As has been posted before here, having a cabin in the woods to retreat to if tshtf can be dangerous due to marauding groups of people willing to take what you have by force. No matter how many guns you have or how large a group you have gathered together for mutual security, the mob can be better armed and larger, especially if you've defended it successfully a few times and word gets out about your retreat.
Well, I'd rather take my chances in a standoff at a hidden retreat than staying put in city/suburbs or joining some "maurauding group." Just pick a spot well hidden and far out of the way and I doubt you will have much to worry about other than food and water.
Old 01-03-2009, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mtbwarrior View Post
Well, I'd rather take my chances in a standoff at a hidden retreat than staying put in city/suburbs or joining some "maurauding group." Just pick a spot well hidden and far out of the way and I doubt you will have much to worry about other than food and water.
Gotta agree with ya there.
Old 01-03-2009, 03:13 PM
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what we did at the cabin was build a basement section with a place to hold a 20.ft and 40.ft long typle shipping containters that put into a basement section to hold food and other supplies then..
we bult over them with a concete roof section with ind typle pillers sections up and down the area to support the roof wieght..
then put dirt and laid fresh sod on the ground and let grow ..
now if you look at the yard you can tell there is a basement section under the cabin area
with ground looks like a part of the yard area..
the cabin foot print is only -x-16.ft-x-20.ft sized with a lift up section of the floor to get to the basement area where the supplie are kept in the cabin with a wall shelf to hold the basic items as need and with two shipping contianers to hold the rest of the long term supplies..
Old 01-03-2009, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangyhyena View Post
As has been posted before here, having a cabin in the woods to retreat to if tshtf can be dangerous due to marauding groups of people willing to take what you have by force. No matter how many guns you have or how large a group you have gathered together for mutual security, the mob can be better armed and larger, especially if you've defended it successfully a few times and word gets out about your retreat.

There are only 2 solutions I can think of. Either do not bother with a retreat at all and plan to stay put or make sure your retreat is truly hidden so hordes of hungry people never even know you're there.

I like the idea of having a bolt hole to run to if things get too bad, so I'm looking for ideas and comments geared toward keeping a retreat well hidden. Let's say I bought a piece of land with a stream or pond on it way out in the middle of nowhere to locate a retreat. For the purpose of this post lets say that a retreat would be used for no longer than a year.

My idea would be to locate the retreat underground. Is it possible to build an underground room, or rooms, with common tools, sweat, time, and commitment? Is there another way to build a retreat that is well hidden without putting it underground? How about putting an old RV pull trailer or two down in the room before completing it? Wouldn't that give you a bathroom, bed, kitchen and such in one shot. Wouldn't be all that expensive if you bought a used RV trailer for this purpose.

Caching would be necessary as well if you wanted to have enough stored supplies to last a year.

If the hatch to this setup were well concealed then I doubt there would be much chance of people stumbling upon it and realizing what was beneath their feet. The biggest risk would be when entering or leaving the retreat, I think.

So, is this possible? What have I overlooked? Is there a better way to retreat in isolation? I'm not much interested in forming a survival group and then trying to defend a retreat, even if things get so bad that going to a retreat is the only viable option.

Is there a better way to accomplish a hidden retreat?



this is how i am doing it. I have several spots i have picked

I know them and its only a matter of the direction i need to go.

abandoned houses are near by.

I don't care much bout the houses but both have old wells that

serve as a water supply, plus theres a creek bout a mile away.

I have my mobile stuff, tents and stuff, plus my van lol.

what I have done is picked the thickest, brier infested deepest part

of the biggest plots Goggle earth is great to make maps from.

I Plan on driving my van Loaded with all my stuff right into the woods and

to my spot in an area of woods about 1 square mile;I can do this because

its a tree farm lol, they planted em far enough apart so a vehicle can pass Thur them once you get into it.

I had to chop an entrance into it but once in I drive about 20 yard and take a right and I'm in the lane between trees allowed for growth.

I was cut 10 years ago so its good for some time .

Also pine trees provide cover in the winter

Any way its there that I am starting to build a survival shed, If the Lord

permits us time another at some place else.

Something more permanent, and warm, dry, and bug and pest free

Its small, Its cheap [estimate around 400 bucks] for the wood .

Buried in the woods, in my mind unless I gave myself away with smoke

or cooking smells no one would expend the energy to go Thur what it would take to get in to my spot , on a wild hunch that maybe they will find some stuff.

With gas running out and folks having to walk I don't see many city folk
making it out there with no visible target, to catch their eyes.

No its the folks with paths and dirt roads and roads near by that lead to a cozy homestead are the ones that will get picked off IMO.[talking total shtf here]

People follow the easiest path, I just dint see someone deciding to go Thur
my spot when easier choices are all around them

I'm on a budget so I had to attack this from all sides leaving options

as I go and basing it on the assumption that in the end I have to walk

where I go. I Just hope I can get my van their Be for say ''martial law''

God forbid that ever happens.

May i suggest sand bags? 2000 of them can be had for around .19

they could be piled on top and around your shelter, or you could just build

a small sandbag bunker next to it
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:38 PM
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I don’t know about you, but, sometimes I have to chuckle at all this stuff. I can see a guy diggin a hole in the ground, in the middle of some woods, haulin in toilets, furnaces, generators and all his belongings in a his back. “Nobody will EVER find me here”. I find it comical to the point of absurd at times.
Don’t get me wrong here. I to have Grand Delusions of evading and surviving IF and When the time comes. I would have to be a bug out or die situation to give this a try though. I believe there are very few who could pull it off for an extended period of time.
Hundreds, maybe thousands of people hit the woods and mountains during the fur trade era. Some died trying, most went back home, a few made a living at it and these were people who used woodcraft skills on a daily basis. They were farmers and backwoodsman who KNEW how to get along with little because it was a way of life.
We have lost the day to day skills to live this way these days. We run to the convenience store daily. For lots of us, we get or food already caught butchered and in some cases even cooked for us. We buy toilet paper for gods sake.
Even if we did have the way and the means to build such a hide out, After a short period of time there would be all kinds of sign that we were there. Work areas, trails, wood chips and clear cuts, crap holes scraps of all kinds. The only way I can see this being pulled off would be to NOT stay put in one place very long., maybe a month at most and that’s probably pushing it. You would also have to survive in as primitive a way as possible so as to minimize your footprint.
Like I said, I dream of such things to, but sometimes these discussions sound like the guy who says he’s going camping, and come to find out he’s doing it in his Winnebago. That’s roughin it….eh.
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:42 PM
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there are very few who could pull it off for an extended period of time

I agree, but to a Christian, Its allowed for us to ask God to Hide us, Perhaps
if it meets the measure of His good will we will be allowed to stay hidden.

He has much power and the measure of his Good will is All one needs.
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:51 PM
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Hiding a cargo container house in a forest wouldn't be much of a trick if you didn't insist on permanent road access. Most anything I was logging in the late 70's to early 80's will have both the paths that were cut for vehicles and a canopy of new growth trees overhead.

Treebark camo paint on the sides and top then throw dead sticks and twigs on top. Plant a mix of blackberry and honeysuckle on the perimeter. Maybe an overgrown earthen berm on the two sides of most likely approach.
Old 01-03-2009, 04:57 PM
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Hiding a cargo container house in a forest wouldn't be much of a trick if you didn't insist on permanent road access. Most anything I was logging in the late 70's to early 80's will have both the paths that were cut for vehicles and a canopy of new growth trees overhead.

Treebark camo paint on the sides and top then throw dead sticks and twigs on top. Plant a mix of blackberry and honeysuckle on the perimeter. Maybe an overgrown earthen berm on the two sides of most likely approach.
If it were my land..........thing is I'm to smart for that

say they cant find you and they want to find you

where is the first place there going to rip apart?


your farm, woods and anything else you lived 5 miles around

I picked someplace different.
Old 01-03-2009, 09:51 PM
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A more expensive - but better engineered option are pre-built underground shelters.

There are a number of excellent designs and companies out there that I have researched. Some are very simple and small. Others are large and elaborate.

Here are some links for your consideration, in no particular order:

http://www.fainstormshelters.com/

http://www.disastershelters.net/

http://www.safecastle.com/home.php

http://www.bomb-shelter.net/p10-disaster-shelter

Here is a company that customizes steel marine shipping containers as shelters, offices and many other configurations for the oil industry. Some good designs here that you could copy if you are handy with welder, torch, etc.:

http://www.containerhouse.com/index.htm

Here are some self-build underground shelter and safe room plans:

http://www.parowanprophet.com/Monthl..._and_plans.htm

http://www.captaindaves.com/nuclear/nwss/index.html

http://www.fema.gov/plan/prevent/saferoom/index.shtm

Here is an interesting company that custom builds hidden walls and doors leading to secret rooms and access to underground areas in homes:

http://www.hiddendoors.net/imagelib/...target=tlx_new

I hope that this helps and spurs your DIY imagination.

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Old 03-28-2009, 04:47 AM
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I would consider a place built into the face of a treed hill. Getting through roots might be a problem, but trees make for good obstacles to vision. Building into a hill makes some aspects of excavation easier. It also helps with runoff and ground water seapage.

Cut back into the hill, build your place, cover and conceal. Waste elimination might be as simple as settling a pipe into a trench and making use of gravity to carry it away. Digging further into the hill might provide an escape route to the other side, with a mid point room used for stable temperature food and ammo storage. Power can be from solar if you an put up with the low output generated by low angled, shielded panels.

I would work out some sort of periscope arrangement to give you an idea of who and what is around before coming out to play.
I am extremely glad I found this thread. I was googling survival retreats and this thread came up.

To the OP, who wisely started this thread, I would suggest Ragnar Benson's books - "The Survival Retreat and The Modern Survival Retreat"

And Jericho, you must somehow have been able to read my mind. I have done about everything you posted except digging thru my hill - mountain, which I would have to dig a mile or so to get to the other side of the Continental Divide.

This post is closer than Anything I have ever read on the net about what I have done on my mtn retreat. I have shown what I do with 29 pics of my retreat, bunker etc. and people can compare it to this post! http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=42447

Over twenty years ago I read an article by Kurt Saxon showing how to build a cheap periscope. Mainly build a long narrow box, mirrors on each end etc. And I would use it before I poked my head up out of my back trap door in a hostile situation. As shown in this pic >
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Old 03-28-2009, 06:47 AM
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I would think you would want some combination of hidden and out in the open. People will know you are there from seeing you. Maybe you could have an old barn or something, but also have a hidden underground place. I suggest maybe a root cellar or a storm shelter that is very well hidden
Old 03-28-2009, 08:44 AM
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I too am inclined to have a combination of sorts. A residence with a hidden safe/secure/storage room, with multiple exits.

Key point is external observation abilities. You would hate to open it up and look down a barrel.

The air supply needs to be hidden and secure as well.
Old 03-28-2009, 10:58 AM
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To OP...not sure where in Colorado you are located, but I would be concerned with the potential build up of H2S in any underground structure.
I'd be cautious in area that have a high concentration of natural gas fields, coal, oil drilling, etc.
Old 03-28-2009, 11:33 AM
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I've thought of this for many years. The absolute best hideout would be one in which the entrance was under water. It might sound crazy, but it works perfectly. Your bunker would need to be near a pond on a hillside or in a valley. Partially drain your pond and install the secret entrance pipe, then cover it all with dirt and grass seed. Leave a concrete hatch on the top of your bunker to stock it. You would later cover it with dirt and smooth it into the hillside to look like normal ground.

To build a bunker easily and cheaply, pile up sand in the shape of an arch to the shape of the inside of the bunker. Cover the sand arch with rebar and mesh and then cover the whole thing with concrete evenly, at least 6 inches thick. Hopefully you left an opening somewhere and then dig out the sand and seal the OUTSIDE of the concrete dome with fiberglass concrete sealer then waterproofing sealant. Cover the whole thing with 6-8 feet of dirt and make it look like normal ground by smoothing it out and planting grass. This basic design takes around 50 tons of sand and can be used to build almost anything you can imagine. The only things that really matter with this construction are a proper foundation under the concrete and air circulation, I'll save that info for another post.
Old 03-29-2009, 11:56 PM
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Awesome thread. Yah some people have the romantic idea they are going to live in a log cabin next to a babbling brook with a multitude of furry, woodland creatures for company. YAH RIGHT! To those people: Have you ever built a log cabin? Log cabins must be built properly or not at all. Fireplaces will drain a cabin of 90% of its heat because the hot air will rise, sucking all the heat out through the chimney as well. I don't think that will be a problem with this internet community, you guys are smarter than the average bear. Good luck in the future.
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