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Old 02-09-2009, 06:12 AM
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Any thoughts on goat milk vs cow? Never had goat milk before...
Old 03-14-2009, 10:54 PM
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I'm not crazy about the strong goaty taste from goat's milk (just gotta try it to know what I mean). I suppose you get used to it and I wouldn't turn it down if all heck broke loose.

When I do get raw cows milk, I get it from a trusted farm. It really does depend on cleanliness and paying attention by the farmer. I've known people who do a worse job on cleanliness with only a couple cows versus those that work with 60 cows. The people I get my milk from have raised all of their children on the raw milk and these kids are now in their 30's and working the farm also. These kids don't just work the farm but have a professional worklife as well. Like most small farmers I know, they need a job outside the farm to make enough money.

It's hard to tell what your food has been exposed to when it comes from a store or from large productions. My husband used to work for a canning factory and really avoided store bought food (we raised our own beef, chickens, garden, etc). Do you really think all the people handling your food wash their hands after going to the bathroom? And how about in the fields where there aren't bathrooms?

I agree in large productions and long storage, heat killing microbes is very important (or if you don't trust your source). I much prefer to grow or raise my own for most of my food just so I have the comfort of knowing the history of the handling.
Old 03-14-2009, 11:14 PM
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I think raw milk is great, unfortunately it is illegal to sell for human consumption here in Tennessee.

One other thing I would be careful about in addition to cleanliness standards if I was purchasing from someone else's cow is to ask what diseases the cows had been tested for and what the results were. There are some nasty cow diseases out there like Johnne's Disease (which is to cows what Crohn's Disease is to humans and the scientists can't seem to agree if it can be passed to man from cattle), Bovine Leukemia Virus, etc. and I would want to know that my milk cow was free of these diseases before I drank the raw milk.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:22 PM
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I drank raw cow milk when I was a kid we had a big family and used a lot of milk.We owned our on milk cow. Like some one posted about the sweet cream that is some fine eating. Take you about 2 table spoon full of that thick cream and mix in some Syrup and sop it up with a Cat head Biscuit.
If you are worried about raw milk boil it to kill germs.
Old 03-14-2009, 11:51 PM
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Please read the following. If it isn't raw milk your using you might as well just drink water. And raw goat milk is the best. Someone mentioned the taste of goat milk. It might taste strong if all they eat is weeds. Nubian goat milk is the best. And more people drink goat milk than cows milk.


http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/rawmilk.htm

Why is Raw milk better?

Pasteurization destroys enzymes, diminishes vitamin content, denatures fragile milk proteins, alters vitamin B12, and vitamin B6, kills beneficial bacteria, promotes pathogens and is associated with allergies, increased tooth decay, colic in infants, growth problems in children, osteoporosis, arthritis, heart disease and cancer. (2)

Heat alters milkís amino acids lysine and tyrosine, making the whole complex of proteins less available; it promotes rancidity of unsaturated fatty acids and destruction of vitamins. Vitamin C loss in pasteurization usually exceeds 50%; loss of other water-soluble vitamins can run as high as 80%; the Wulzen or anti-stiffness factor is totally destroyed. Pasteurization alters milkís mineral components such as calcium, chlorine, magnesium, phosphorus, potassium, sodium and sulfur as well as many trace minerals, making them less available. There is some evidence that pasteurization alters lactose, making it more readily absorbable. This, and the fact that pasteurized milk puts an unnecessary strain on the pancreas to produce digestive enzymes, may explain why milk consumption in societies that drink pasteurized milk has been linked with diabetes. (3)

Pasteurization destroys all the enzymes in milk -- in fact, the test for successful pasteurization is absence of enzymes. These enzymes help the body assimilate all bodybuilding factors, including calcium. That is why those who drink pasteurized milk may suffer, nevertheless, from osteoporosis. Lipase in raw milk helps the body digest and utilize butterfat. (3)

Butterfat has a cortisone-like factor which is heat sensitive (destroyed by heat) that prevents stiffness in the joints. Raw Milk contains beneficial bacteria as well as lactic acids that allow these beneficial bacteria to implant in the intestines. Once heated, milk becomes rotten, with precipitated minerals that canít be absorbed (hence osteoporosis), with sugars that canít be digested (hence allergies), and with fats that are toxic. (4)

Raw milk has been used as a therapy in folk medicine. It has been used in the pre-insulin days to treat diabetes, as well as eczema, intestinal worms, allergies, and arthritis, all for reasons which can be understood when we realize just what is in milk -- such as the cortisone - like factor for allergies and eczema.(4)

My personal opinion is raw milk produces much better cheese... cheese with body and character. Pasteurized milk cheese can be flat.

I believe the American public these days are way to obsessed with "antibacterial". It's gotten to the point of being dangerous because some bacteria is good and necessary. People are turning themselves into "bubble boys" never being exposed to anything, hence, when they are exposed to a bad bacteria, they get very sick. People who are exposed the good and bad all the time in there lives build a resistance, and when exposed to a bad bacteria, their bodies have developed the antibodies to fight it off.

I'm not saying raw milk has bad bacteria, actually it's the opposite. The milk has good bacteria which can fight off any dangerous or bad bacteria present in the milk or that may fall into the milk. If you pasteurize the milk, thus killing the good bacteria, then any bad bacteria that may manage to get into the milk will multiply and grow quickly, because pasteurized milk is the prefect medium for bacteria to grow and there is no longer any good bacteria present to fight the bad bacteria off. This is why milk from the store goes bad, turns lumpy and horrible, where raw milk (if it's around long enough) just naturally turns pleasantly sours and becomes like buttermilk.

I use nothing but raw milk. I figure, why bother going to all the trouble of raising my own goats for milk and then ruining it by killing off all the good live things it contains and destroying the nutrients? If your goats are healthy and you follow sanitary procedure, there is nothing better for you than raw milk. If using raw milk, it must be handled correctly, everything must be sanitary and the animals that the milk comes from should all be healthy and happy.


What is Homogenization?

Homogenization is a mechanical process that breaks down butterfat globules so they do not rise to the top. Mechanically homogenized milk has been linked to heart disease. (2)

Info about goat milk:

Normal goat milk fat has a much higher concentration of so called medium chain fatty acids (MCT), caproic, caprylic, capric, lauric, myristic (33%) verses cow milk fat (17%), and lower in stearic and oleic (27%) lower than cow milk fat (45%) . Much documentation exists showing the uniquely beneficial effects of those MCT, medium chain fatty acids in various medical problems, disorders and diseases, such as those suffering from malabsorption syndromes chluria, steatorrhe, hyperlipoproteinemia intestinal resection, coronary bypass, premature infant feeding, childhood epilepsy, cystic fibrosis, gallstones, angcontributeto general thriftiness of children. (5)

Goat milk provides 13% more calcium, 25% more Vit B-6, 47% more Vit A, 134% more potassium and 350% more niacin than cow milk. Goat milk is higher in chloride, copper and manganese and none of the controversial bovine growth hormone (BGH) (5)

ken
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:46 AM
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we have a dairy near here thats legaly allowed to sell raw milk they also bottle there own dont know of any others like that in the state,its state inspected and checked and and has very high quility and safe milk but your going to pay a lot more for it,wish they made real butter there to.
Old 03-15-2009, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by riverrat View Post
We used to bring the pitcher down to the barn and dip milk right out of the bulk tank and bring it back up to the house when we were done milking.
I have 4 dairy families in my family. All of their children, and even grandchildren were raised this way as well.

I grew up with goats, and milked them 2x per day. The entire school could be sick, and usually was during the winter, and I NEVER was. Goats milk has finer fat globules and stays in the body of the milk, not separating like cow's milk. This makes the milk creamier.

As for obtaining raw milk, where purchasing the actual milk is illegal in your state: there is a way around that. You can purchase a "share" of the milk cow. When you purchase part of the cow, you are entitled to what your share produces...either meat, milk or their by-products, legally.
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:19 AM
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Anyone ever heard of using a silver dollar in a glass of raw milk? My grandfather used to do that.
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:12 AM
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Anyone ever heard of using a silver dollar in a glass of raw milk? My grandfather used to do that.
It's funny you should ask..you can read it here.


OPHECY, LONG TERM PREPAREDNESS, AND FOOD PRESERVATION - A "how to"

Here's how they used to keep Milk fresh without refrigeration... they put a silver dollar in the Milk Can!

NATURAL ANTI-BIOTIC FROM THE PAST REDISCOVERED FOR TODAY by Amy Torkelsen (excerpted) from http://www.presentmoment.com/article...colloidal.html

Recently, there has been a wave of publicity about a supplement, which has actually been used successfully since the time of the ancient Greeks: Silver. Some of you may remember great-grandma putting a silver dollar in the milk to keep it from spoiling as it sat on the back porch in the summertime. >From the late 1800s until 1938, Colloidal Silver was in common use in America. Before there were man-made antibiotics available, Colloidal Silver was successfully used to treat a variety of diseases without harm to the liver and kidneys that man-made antibiotics bring. In fact, Colloidal Silver is non-toxic to mammals, reptiles, plants and all living things with more than one cell.

The presence of Colloidal Silver near a virus, fungus, bacteria or any single-celled disease-causing pathogen cripples its oxygen-metabolizing-enzyme. It suffocates and dies in a few minutes and is cleared out of the body by the immune, lymphatic, and eliminatory systems.

While man-made antibiotics destroy a variety of enzymes throughout the body and kill off the friendly bacteria in the intestinal tract, Colloidal Silver leaves the enzymes of tissue-type cells unaffected.

In the past, the major set-back of using silver as an antibiotic was its high price, leaving it available only to heads of state, royalty and those with economic power. But today, improvements in the method of production allow liquid Colloidal Silver to be marketed at a fraction of its previous cost.

Colloidal Silver is "pure silver divided into atoms or micro-clusters of fewer than 15 atoms each and given a positive electric charge so that it will float throughout pure water, making what is called a Colloidal Suspension--one substance, a solid, suspended in another substance, liquid." This technology allows the product to be more affordable today.

Although each situation and each person's metabolism is different, Colloidal Silver's antibiotic, anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties have been successfully used in treating over 650 diseases. Here is a partial list: abrasions, acne, allergies, athlete's foot, blood parasites, burns, Candida, chronic fatigue, colds / flu, dandruff, herpes, infection, inflammation, Lupus, Lyme's Disease, parasitic infections, pneumonia, psoriasis, staph and strep infections, tonsillitis, all forms of virus, warts and yeast infections.

What makes Colloidal Silver so unique is that it is non-toxic, safe during pregnancy, and non-allergenic, and no germ has been able to mutate and prevent its own destruction by silver in the several thousand years of opportunity. Therefore, no tolerance to Colloidal Silver has been reported, unlike regular antibiotics. There also has not been any pharmaceutical drug interaction reported. The chemical nature of silver is such that inside the body, it forms no compounds that are toxic. For some people, using Colloidal Silver is like having a second immune system, both to prevent and to treat infections and cell damage.

Another great benefit of Colloidal Silver is that it is one of the best water purifiers available. Bad water, if it does not contain toxic chemicals but only germ contaminants, can be made drinkable by adding one to three tablespoons of Colloidal Silver per gallon. In fact, to guard against water-borne diseases such as dysentery, more than one-half of the world's airlines use silver water filters! For food preservation, add about one tablespoon of Colloidal Silver per quart of any foods being used for a picnic that contain mayonnaise, dairy products, or foods with potential of salmonella growth. Plus, Colloidal Silver is tasteless and has no odor so it is undetectable in food and water.

When choosing Colloidal Silver, here are a few points to look for: tests show that the darker the solution, the more concentrated it is. Therefore, it is more powerful, effective, and cost-efficient. It should also be stored in glass. There is an inherent electric charge in the hydrocarbon molecule (of plastic containers) that will draw the charged silver particle out of the solution, bonding it to the sidewalls of the plastic container, making it unusable.

Two quality brands of Colloidal Silver which Present Moment carries are Source Naturals and Innovative Natural Products. Anyone can use Colloidal Silver, as it supports and supplements the body. While benefits vary depending on an individual's age, body weight, diet, metabolic rate, and general health, Colloidal Silver is presently being used successfully by many health professionals. If great-grandma had faith in its ability years ago, isn't it worth a try today?

As with any supplement, check with a holistic practitioner before using. For more information or questions on this product, call Innovative Natural Products at 800.893.7467. Here's to your health!

ken
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:16 AM
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wow.. so not just "another one of grandpa's idiocycracies". How about TB that everyone seems to be worried about with raw milk?

Would 90% silver dollars help for this?
Old 03-15-2009, 02:48 AM
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wow.. so not just "another one of grandpa's idiocycracies". How about TB that everyone seems to be worried about with raw milk
Never heard about the TB thing in raw milk..I think the big thing was salmonella poisoning from raw milk. Don't believe everything that the food and drug adminstration has to say. To them it's not about saftey it's about money. And it should be two different departments.

They say you are what you eat, and you wonder why people get sick. Look at all the perservitives that are in foods.

Anyway this is a good subject,
ken
Old 03-15-2009, 05:23 AM
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I am a milkman and pasteurize at the plant. Be careful with raw milk. It can make you real sick. There are in home small pasteurizing units. But not sure how good they are.

Modern milk pasteurization the process lasts 4 minutes. Hot, cold, hot, cold. We use 170* F hot side and 35*F on the cold side. These extrems in temp kills germs that might be in the milk.
Pasturization was started because farmers were using dirty water added to the milk to make it go further. Pasturized milk looses it's ability to fight off germs once heated. Pasturazation Kills the milk.

I have been drinking raw milk for years straight from the sac and never been sick from it.
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:34 AM
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I think raw milk is great, unfortunately it is illegal to sell for human consumption here in Tennessee.

One other thing I would be careful about in addition to cleanliness standards if I was purchasing from someone else's cow is to ask what diseases the cows had been tested for and what the results were. There are some nasty cow diseases out there like Johnne's Disease (which is to cows what Crohn's Disease is to humans and the scientists can't seem to agree if it can be passed to man from cattle), Bovine Leukemia Virus, etc. and I would want to know that my milk cow was free of these diseases before I drank the raw milk.

Others in my area get around this

Craigslist posting

Raw goats milk for sale for animal consumption.
Gathered daily from clean and healthy herd.

We drink it ourselves so we know its fresh.

If you see a ad like this the perosn is selling it for anyone..any animal who wants to drink it
Old 03-15-2009, 05:39 AM
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[quote]
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Originally Posted by iKorona View Post
I'm not crazy about the strong goaty taste from goat's milk (just gotta try it to know what I mean). I suppose you get used to it and I wouldn't turn it down if all heck broke loose.

QUOTE]
That taste comes from the farmer leaving the goat in with the buck or from what the goat ate.

Goat milk tastes just like cows milk only fresher. We have had the goaty flavor when our buck was being run in the girls pen after he broke his gate, the taste disappeared after we moved him back to his pen away from the girls.

So yo don't have to get used to that goaty flavor-jus tmove your bucks!
Old 03-15-2009, 02:22 PM
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back in the old days i heard you could get TB from raw milk besides getting it from other people thats another reson why they pasturised milk,
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:45 PM
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back in the old days i heard you could get TB from raw milk besides getting it from other people thats another reson why they pasturised milk,

That story is simply BS. It never happened, Raw milk is undoubtly the best for you....Better raw goat milk than cow's milk.

Here is a link for everyone:

http://www.realmilk.com/crime-against-raw-milk.html

ken
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:31 PM
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Drop a US Silver Eagle in your milk while you let the cream seperate. there are cheaper junk silver coins, but they are only 90% silver and have less surface area
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Old 03-18-2009, 11:45 AM
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Brucellosis in the cows does present the risk of undulant fever by the consumer of the milk. My dad always vaccinated the cows, and our large family never got sick from drinking fresh, whole milk. We milked by hand and sold grade "C" milk in the can.
My husbands father never vaccinated his cows. My husband and one of his siblings did contract undulant fever. They milked with machines and sold grade "A" milk from bulk tank.
Want to know who had the lowest somatic(bacteria) counts in the milk? -- My dad!

No milk cows other than an occasional one for the last 35 years for us, but I would not hesitate to drink raw milk if I knew the cow was tested or vaccinated for Brucellosis.
Old 03-18-2009, 12:40 PM
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The reason for pasteurization is that raw milk can carry Listeria which is a gram + bacteria that is not easily treated and has a fatality rate of around 25% as opposed to salmonella that has a fatality rate of about 1%. Listiria generally does not present any out ward symptoms when contracted and can grow in your body for years before you see the sighen of it. Listiria is the #1 cause of Spinal Meningitis and this is why pasteurization was made mandatory in the 1940's.
Pasteurizing milk DOES NOT cause lactose intolerance and
allergic reactions.
Both raw milk and pasteurized milk can cause allergic reactions in people sensitive to milk proteins.
Raw milk DOES NOT kill dangerous pathogens by itself.
Pasteurization DOES NOT reduce milk’s nutritional value.
Pasteurization DOES NOT mean that it is safe to leave milk out of the refrigerator for extended time, particularly after it has been opened. Milk is subject to salmonella.
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:11 PM
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The reason for pasteurization is that raw milk can carry Listeria which is a gram + bacteria that is not easily treated and has a fatality rate of around 25% as opposed to salmonella that has a fatality rate of about 1%. Listiria generally does not present any out ward symptoms when contracted and can grow in your body for years before you see the sighen of it. Listiria is the #1 cause of Spinal Meningitis and this is why pasteurization was made mandatory in the 1940's.
Pasteurizing milk DOES NOT cause lactose intolerance and
allergic reactions.
Both raw milk and pasteurized milk can cause allergic reactions in people sensitive to milk proteins.
Raw milk DOES NOT kill dangerous pathogens by itself.
Pasteurization DOES NOT reduce milkís nutritional value.
Pasteurization DOES NOT mean that it is safe to leave milk out of the refrigerator for extended time, particularly after it has been opened. Milk is subject to salmonella.

You need to get your facts straight, you have been lead down a long road of BS!

Raw milk is the best for you, Raw milk does not cause problems in people with lactose intolerance (I should know I have 3 living with me). Pasteurization does kill the milk, why do you think they add certain nutrients back into it after the process? BS sells and it comes in a wrapper that says for your health the US Goverment (FDA) says that raw anything is baddddd for you! Get your butt on the puter and look up the misconceptions that have been spread about raw milk. I would suggest yo go to the website that someone else has offered and read about the lies that have been spread (like that raw milk caused alot of problems when it was pasturized milk that was the culpurit).
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