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Old 03-07-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Rvnquest View Post
Well, you would need to know more about genetics than I do. This is the case with other diseases as well. Alzheimer's is a issue near and dear to my heart, as my dad has it. This article explains it better than I can. Just because you have the genes, does not mean it will manifest. It just means you have a greater risk of contracting it.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alz...-genes/AZ00047
That article is actually very similar to what I said. Here are a couple quotes from that article:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayoclinic.com
Not everyone who has one or two APOE e4 genes develops Alzheimer's disease. The disease occurs in many people who have no APOE e4 gene, suggesting that the APOE e4 gene affects risk but is not a cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayoclinic.com
genes are risk factors, not direct causes.
The first quote supports my ideas, and the second quote just sums it up. The presence or absence of normal or mutated genes does not cause Alzheimers, so using the same logic, how could it cause depression?
Old 03-07-2013, 10:51 AM
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Really do you want to argue that with me? Did you just see a woman almost die from mixing the two? I did. Or were you too busy busting rocks or changing oil at Wal Mart? Dont ever question me. Here read this if its up to your reading level.

Boyer EW, Shannon M (2005). "The serotonin syndrome". N Engl J Med 352 (11): 1112–20.

Now why dont you be a good little boy and get my some fries with my McDouble...
a real piece of work here........you dont know my background....and you were wrong to say serotonin syndrome ONLY happens when you mix the two...you are wrong......why dont you put the money where your mouth is sir......$100 says serotonin syndrone can happen w/ prescribed meds......I know you wont take the bet.....you are at the end of the day an interent coward

Before I really make you look foolish I will post an example of meds causing the syndrome...took all of 10 sec to find...sources abound

[Life-threatening serotonin syndrome following a single dose of a serotonin reuptake inhibitor during maintenance therapy with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor].

[Article in Dutch]

Zonneveld AM, Hagenaars M, Voermans NC, Gelissen HP, Claassen JA.


Source

Universitair Medisch Centrum St Radboud, Nijmegen. [email protected]


Abstract


A 72-year-old man presented to the emergency clinic with motor restlessness and diminished consciousness 24 hours after he had mistakenly been given venlafaxine. He was referred from the psychiatric clinic where he was treated with tranylcypromine. Shortly after arrival, a severe serotonin syndrome developed with generalised myoclonic seizures, hyperreflexia, hypertonia, a rapid increase in temperature to 40.9 degrees C, hypertension, tachycardia, respiratory insufficiency, hyperkalaemia and metabolic acidosis. The patient was treated with the sedative propofol and the muscle relaxant rocuronium, followed by intubation and artificial respiration. He was cooled on a cooling mattress. Twenty-four hours later the airway tube could be removed and after 48 hours he was returned to the psychiatric ward in good condition. Tranylcypromine is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor and venlafaxine is a serotonin and noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor. When two serotoninergic agents are combined, the serotonin syndrome may develop, and this may be life-threatening. The treatment of this syndrome with propofol and rocuronium can be given quickly and safely in practically every hospital.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:04 AM
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Who do we think we are that we can so carelessly alter our body chemistry when we know so little about it? And then we want to dispense a generic pill that will work on everybody. "Oh, that pill didn't work for you? Here's another one with a slightly different property. Still not working? OK, here's a piggyback antidepressant to help boost the one that the effects have faded on." And on, and on, and on...

...
real scientific eh....and its goes on everyday

monkeying around w/ your brain chemistry is not something to be taken lightly......and maybe not left in the hands of the ones who stand to profit and really have no other treatment options for the pt except meds
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:09 AM
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Prozac is on of the most studied drugs ever and it's benefit to risk ration is very high. It has a few side effects but they're all minor.

.
sources?????

esp since Ive seen studies that show Prozac had the same effect as a placebo
Old 03-07-2013, 11:31 AM
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I wasn't going to say anything beyond don't quit cold turkey because of the side effects but some of these attitudes really irked me badly - not the word I wanted to say so here it goes...

I was perfectly happy - most outgoing person who everyone wanted to be around - actually stating facts here, not bragging. At the time, I was raising three kids, working 14 hrs a day, was homeroom mom for two of them, on Girl Scout Council, GS troop leader for another, and still did volunteer work, threw parties for the neighborhood, life was great - literally.

And then, at the Detroit airport, coming home from burying my Brother, while unloading the luggage from the rental car trunk, a drunk driver in front of my car, put his car in reverse instead of drive, floored it, and hit my car, which in turn, hit me. First the left knee (which still doesn't work today), then the right ribs (from where I bounced), then the teeth (where I hit the trunk lid) and, because no one was behind me, I took a little ride of 16 - 18 ft backwards on the car and then slammed on the ground on the back of my head. The car continued to roll but thankfully, I was coherent enough to roll over so it just ran over my hair and not my skull.

I lost large chunks of my memories - probably 60% of them. How frustrating when the kids or a good friend say "remember when we.." and nope, don't have a clue. I can't remember my kid's first words, or steps, or other special milestones and most importantly, the little things that make life special. At the same time, I got severe anxiety - I can't handle being around crowds of people. I can't even handle socially interacting one on one - say at a party or a group meeting - for more than an hour or two. Thank goodness I am "home office" and can do everything remotely or else you people would be supporting me through disability.. I have severe migraines - make me sound like George W when I just make up words - those can be amusing. I sometimes can't find the word that I need to complete a sentence even though I am a very intelligent person.

How do I manage to function?? I am on Effexor and Topimax right now - my neurologist has had to tweak and change some of them around over the past six years to handle the migraines but if I wasn't on Effexor, I would have no life. I can now hug my children (couldn't stand to be touched for a year) and be around them too (and others) with just short breaks for quiet every few hours. And yes, I still get depressed at times but at least I can function.

Exercise and diet? Never had to exercise to stay trim until the medication. Since then, even though I can't work my left knee correctly, I have walked seven half marathons (in the required time - can't run) and gotten my medals. My weight gain is not based on diet, it is because of the meds and the combination of them that causes it. The last "tweak" worked on the migraines so I only have one a week to go with the 30 lbs I gained. Yep, need to exercise some more but sometimes, the depression, even with the medication is too much when you have the family, the job, and the other responsibilities.

I don't volunteer like I used to - I can't. But I still work and function. If the end hits and I don't have my Effexor, once I live through the withdrawl, I will be the crazy hermit lady in the woods that you REALLY want to stay away from because I won't be responsible for my behavior.

Before some of you sit back in your chairs and type away with your "it's not real", come live our lives for a while and then see what you have to say.

Sorry for the rant to those that are trying to be helpful - for you judgemental ones, I have a big truck ... stay out of my path.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:52 PM
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I wasn't going to say anything beyond don't quit cold turkey because of the side effects but some of these attitudes really irked me badly - not the word I wanted to say so here it goes...
I'm not trying to be an ass here, but don't you think that your accident is directly related to your problems? You have a very distinct event that you can tie to the start of all that you mentioned. I'm reasonably confident that some part of the initial trauma or physical healing process damaged, or failed to restore to its original state, some part of your brain. To me, that is different than if you had the same problems but with no associated influence.

You say you can't handle being around crowds. I understand the words, but what do you mean? I personally dislike large crowds where social interaction is expected- I don't like having to make small talk for hours on end and I don't like all the noise; I'm just not comfortable in those situations. After a couple hours of that, I feel exhausted and usually go outside or to a different room where it is quieter with fewer or no people. However, there are times when I need to stay, such as important events for my job, my wedding even, or some events in which my wife just really wants me to participate. I don't like it, and it really does drain me, but I can put on a happy face and do it all night.

For you, though, how is it different? What is it that makes you not able to do that or something similar? I'm assuming my dislike for crowds is much less severe than yours, so I know we're not comparing apples to apples. Why can't you decide to act, while off the medicine, how you act while on it?

Again, I'm not trying to be an *******. I realize that my questions, if read with a certain tone of voice in mind, could be seen as trying to get a rise out of you, but that's not my intention.
Old 03-07-2013, 12:55 PM
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The "it's not real" is getting tiring.

I decided some people on here are not real instead. I think that is the healthy approach.

And howcome we don't care to even try to help out here anymore, just look for threads to make a debate out of???
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:23 PM
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I can now hug my children (couldn't stand to be touched for a year) and be around them too (and others) with just short breaks for quiet every few hours. And yes, I still get depressed at times but at least I can function.
I'm so sorry you have had to go through this, it sounds horrible.

I've never felt comfortable in crowds or being touched by anyone outside my family. Even hair cuts are rough on me.

The one thing that has helped is knitting and crocheting. The repeated motion seems to help keep me calm. Last weekend I was invited to the movies and sat there knitting in the dark. I knit hats for several organizations and it's very easy to stay on track. I knit through everything... and if I can't I knit until the very last second. I always have it with me and I am constantly being given yarn.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:55 PM
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My weight gain is not based on diet, it is because of the meds and the combination of them that causes it. The last "tweak" worked on the migraines so I only have one a week to go with the 30 lbs I gained. Yep, need to exercise some more but sometimes, the depression, even with the medication is too much when you have the family, the job, and the other responsibilities.
Am liking my new meds more than what I was on. This new one, for this round, has not caused weight gain. Prozac and Amni were bad.

I give you a lot of credit Randi, most people wouldn't survive what you have gone through.
Old 03-07-2013, 02:03 PM
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My need for medication and anxiety and the rest is ALL attributed to the brain injury that I received from being run over. It is the same type of injury that the soldiers who are in explosions and come back with the emotional issues - the brain is physically damaged so yes, it is not the same as someone with a chemical imbalance.

The personality changes are real - you have to understand, I LITERALLY cannot be around people for long periods of time if I have to interact. Its not groups of people - I go to Vegas and have a blast because I don't have to talk to anyone if I don't want to. We are season ticket holders to our professional football team and I am fine in the game, not so good at the long tailgate parties before hand. My skin crawls after a while, I start looking for exits, and I just want to run far far away.. And that is on medication. Without it, I couldn't stand to be touched - and I am probably one of the most physical people that you would meet. When I am having a good day - or a short encounter - I am a "hugger" - I hug co-workers when I haven't seen them for a while or after a dinner - I am southern and it USED to be my personality. I never met a "stranger" - would bug my husband nutty because he is not that way at all.. he probably likes that side effect because now it is kept at a minimum and on good days.

The personality part is difficult for people who have known me for years. I see my sorority sisters and they don't understand how someone who was "rush lead" and arranged campus wide fund raising activities with 100 plus student organizations (go to each of their organizations and ask for their support, arrange them, etc) for four years now doesn't want to hang for a football homecoming weekend or a reunion in NOLA - I can be with them for a few hours and then I have to take a break. It hurts their feelings but I can't help that either. Other parents now think I am "bad" for not volunteering at the school functions - think they would hate it more if snapped at their kid for no reason.

I wish I could put on the happy face and make small talk like you do even when you don't want to. I was a huge asset to my husband and his work when I could - now I don't help in in that manner. I also traveled the world in my job, working with our suppliers and doing the same thing - glad that budget cuts mean I can do it over the phone because I can handle it that way.

Don't get me wrong - this is the hand that life had dealt me and I am happy to be alive - should be but God wanted me around to lecture and harass others so here I am I am thankful for the first part of my life and I am and will make the best of the second part of my life with its limitations and be happy too - just in a different way. After all, if it didn't happen, I wouldn't be here with you - that is why my husband thinks I am now buying my farm and prepping - all part of the paranoid brain injury - that, or a fear of zombies..

My point (a war and peace novel length response later!) is that if I have these effects from a physical injury, then who is to say that people who have chemical imbalances or get depressed should be told to pull up their big girl thongs and exercise or suck it up or change their diet - sometimes, you can't help it and having people truly not understand makes it worse. I can't wear a sign that says "it's not my fault -it was the lifetime unemployed drunk welfare recipient who didn't even get probation for ruining my life" (ok - yes, I get bitter at times and I admit it) and in some cases, neither can they..
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:07 PM
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Yelruh - I am not talented enough to knit and crochet - wish I could! My Daddy actually tried teaching me as a child - guess since I am left handed it was too difficult.. although.. I did learn how to "hand crochet" - just a really long line of string that you couldn't do anything with :-) I am so happy that you found something that works for you - I might have to try that again.. would love to be able to make afghans or misshapen sweaters..
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:16 PM
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Thanks Rvnquest - I am not looking for sympathy (on most days at least!) but truly, I have been blessed. I have insurance that pays for the continued bills and meds, a family that loves me, a husband that has almost learned to overlook the changes, and, after the neurologist told him I am NOT crazy for wanting to buy a farm, now supports me in our (ha - mine and my girls!) new adventure.

I can feel secure in knowing that I am preparing for our security and safety by setting up our property and garden and preps and he can "indulge" me since he thinks it is all just for our retirement someday..
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:45 PM
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TDFbound - BTW - I didn't think you were being an ass when you asked - it is hard for someone who hasn't lived through it to understand and hard to explain too...it has taken my husband the past six years to get there and he still gets frustrated and I don't blame him - I am not the same person he knew 28 yrs ago (our first date was literally 28 yrs ago this weekend! He is four years older than I am and I had just turned 18 a few months earlier - thought if he got me young, he could train me - that didn't work out well for him!) and married 23 yrs ago.

I appreciate the fact that you have an open mind and are trying to understand what I was saying .. and seriously, your own wedding? Your wife must have more patience than my husband. Way to suck it up and take one for the team
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:55 PM
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Thanks Rvnquest - I am not looking for sympathy (on most days at least!) but truly, I have been blessed. I have insurance that pays for the continued bills and meds, a family that loves me, a husband that has almost learned to overlook the changes, and, after the neurologist told him I am NOT crazy for wanting to buy a farm, now supports me in our (ha - mine and my girls!) new adventure.

I can feel secure in knowing that I am preparing for our security and safety by setting up our property and garden and preps and he can "indulge" me since he thinks it is all just for our retirement someday..
Was not expressing sympathy, was expressing admiration.

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Old 03-12-2013, 07:30 AM
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If we are all unique, who is to label some people as "mentally ill" because their chemical makeup is a little different than yours or mine? While I certainly see no reason to disagree with your statement, I don't understand how that really matters. So what if one person has more or less of certain chemicals in their brain? Why is it OK to label certain people (A) with a mental disease and not others, like me (B)? Just as A is different than B, isn't B different than A? Why haven't I and my own unique chemical makeup been diagnosed with some mental disease?
My point is how can a single formula give everyone the same results when our makeup is so different?



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Obviously doctors aren't diagnosing people with mental illness simply because of their unique chemical makeups, or else every single person would have been diagnosed with a mental disease at birth. So if the determining factor for diagnosis of a mental illness isn't chemical, it's not a physical thing, it is a mental thing. Its all in the person's mind. I don't have a mental illness; not because of my chemical makeup, but because my mind is able to handle my life and my experiences.
Call me crazy, but natural selection comes to mind here. We are weakening our own species through "science". How did we ever make it this far?

So small, and we think we are of such great consequence, so wrong, so wrong.
Old 03-12-2013, 07:38 AM
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Many cases? Ok... what about the rest?

You did not address arthritis, scoliosis, sociopaths, mental retardation, and hip problems. I could continue to name health problems that you and I both know can be caused by nothing more than a defect in our body coming from a gene passed down that prevents this or causes that or whatever factors contribute to our development while still in the womb or even as a child.

It's silly to rubber stamp "poor diet and sedentary lifestyle" on everyone who has something that's not right.

Based on your insistence upon those being the root cause of the overwhelming majority of health problems it could be inferred that in your opinion if everyone ate the same food and had the same exercise/level of fitness they would either become completely healthy if the diet were good and would develop the exact same health issues if the diet were poor.
What about the rest? I'm not totally disagreeing with you here. It may have been your parents or grandparents poor choice of diet that has caused you problems... You do have some control over your genes, you are not totally powerless as many would like you to think.

Have a look at this. It is also in book form, kindle, etc.. but free here: http://www.smashwords.com/extreader/...ess-or-illness
Old 03-12-2013, 11:24 AM
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I was on Sertraline, but I weened myself off of it, and Life is much better now.
Old 03-21-2013, 04:20 PM
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Default Short notes on stopping SSRIs and Serotonin Syndrome

Stopping SSRIs
When stopping SSRIs, one should gradually taper the dose. Withdrawal may occur, and generally presents as symptoms of what the drug was meant to treat: dysphoria, anxiety, agitation. If withdrawal symptoms occur with tapering, it's best to increase the dose and taper at a slower rate.

Serotonin Syndrome
Serotonin Syndrome is caused by excessive action of serotonin in the central nervous system. Yes, it can be caused by a single substance, but is more likely to be caused by a combination of two or more serotonin agonists, especially in higher doses. Always talk to your doctor if you plan to take St. John's Wort or any other 5HT agonist. SSRIs are generally safe and well-tolerated in most people, and serotonin syndrome is usually rare and unpredictable in the population at large.

Source: student of the health professions wielding the power of medical literature.
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