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Old 01-29-2013, 11:29 PM
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Default JP low mass buffer vs. carbine



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So I got a JP upper with low mass carrier and was thinking about a low mass buffer. However, it's the same weight as a carbine buffer. Basically it's a low mass buffer for a rifle system, but a typical carbine buffer is the same thing, both are 3 ounces. So, what are you gaining by getting a rifle buffer tube, buffer, and spring, if your buffer weighs the same? I don't get it. Seems like you could just mate this low mass carrier up to a carbine tube and short buffer and be done with it. Looks like you just get a longer buffer tube then have to fill that space up by getting a longer buffer. Doesn't seem to be much point in it but please tell me if I'm wrong.
Old 01-30-2013, 12:10 AM
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Default I Will Bite

In principle, you want to run as heavy of bolt carrier and buffer as possible. Heavier is better as it will smooth out the action and perhaps compensate for other parts not quite working together correctly.

The problem years ago and still today is that barrel manufactures are NOT providing the necessary adjustments in the gas port hole diameter for the intended function of the build. Nowadays one size fits all.

The shorter the gas system today, the smaller the gas port hole SHOULD be. This is because the gas pressure inside the barrel is higher with the shorter distances used when drawing off the gas via the gas tube.

What is happening is that SOME barrel manufactures, not knowing where or how their long, medium or short gas system barrels are going to be used, just go with one gas port diameter in ALL of their barrels. Not all.

Enter the different buffer groups available today. Light, medium and heavy, along with bolt carriers cut back to different masses. (weights) I have forgotten which drill bit number is use for different gas port distances.

Sorry. One could look it up if really interested and then pull your front site base and physically measure the gas port hole diameter in the barrel. Then you can fine tune your bolt/buffer group mass to perfect performance. HB of CJ (old coot)

Yeah yeah...100's of AR15 builds...so on and so on....but who really cares anymore?
Old 01-30-2013, 02:36 AM
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IMO JP's stuff goes in JP's rifles unless it's a standard-mass product. JP makes some very good stuff, but their lightweight components are meant for their systems/gas-ports, and to work together as a system to be reliable, and yet lower the total reciprocating mass for quicker shot-to-shot times. JP stuff, or standard stuff, not mix/match unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing.
Old 01-30-2013, 08:00 AM
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I'm not mixing and matching. This is on a high end jp upper with an 18" barrel, rifle gas system, and lightweight jp bolt carrier group, and jp adjustable gas port. I am trying to decide whether to get a rifle buffer tube with a jp lmos buffer, or carbine tube with carbine buffer, because both weigh the same. Yes I realize normal upper usually need heavier crap. This isn't a normal upper. It is a jp competition model.
Old 01-30-2013, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
IMO JP's stuff goes in JP's rifles unless it's a standard-mass product. JP makes some very good stuff, but their lightweight components are meant for their systems/gas-ports, and to work together as a system to be reliable, and yet lower the total reciprocating mass for quicker shot-to-shot times. JP stuff, or standard stuff, not mix/match unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing.
that is about the best answer on this subject. well said.

i would add that JP's stuff is more for competition and fun, and less suited for combat. not that it wouldn't perform, just not mil-spec.
Old 01-30-2013, 11:09 AM
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"Just not mil-spec"... Their full mass stuff actually goes well beyond mil spec. The bolts are made out of sae 9310 high grade steel, not mil spec 8620. Generally speaking, Full mil spec is crap compared to jp. That being said, yes I am purposely getting a lightweight carrier that admittedly may not be as reliable.

And I still don't have an answer to my question. Is there any advantage of getting a 3 ounce jp lmos rifle buffer vs. A 3 ounce carbine buffer setup? Yes it is a jp upper, yes it is a jp lmos carrier, yes it is a jp adjustable gas port.
Old 01-30-2013, 12:10 PM
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i didnt mean to say it wasn't good stuff, mil spec goes beyond quality. its about weights too.

to get the best answer you should contact JP.
Old 01-30-2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 556OnItsWay View Post
i didnt mean to say it wasn't good stuff, mil spec goes beyond quality. its about weights too.

to get the best answer you should contact JP.
I finally got through to customer service, they said a carbine setup will work just fine, as long as it's a standard 3 ounce weight and not an h1/h2/etc. So anyway, solves that issue I guess. Thanks.
Old 01-30-2013, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndogggy View Post
I finally got through to customer service, they said a carbine setup will work just fine, as long as it's a standard 3 ounce weight and not an h1/h2/etc. So anyway, solves that issue I guess. Thanks.
It might function, but it won't function as well. The more coils a spring has, the more consistent its rate. You're going to be giving up some reliability, and with a low-mass operating system, I wouldn't choose to do that. This is the exact reason the Vltor A5 setup came about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corndogggy View Post
I'm not mixing and matching. This is on a high end jp upper with an 18" barrel, rifle gas system, and lightweight jp bolt carrier group, and jp adjustable gas port. I am trying to decide whether to get a rifle buffer tube with a jp lmos buffer, or carbine tube with carbine buffer, because both weigh the same. Yes I realize normal upper usually need heavier crap. This isn't a normal upper. It is a jp competition model.
Then get the rest of the appropriate rifle setup from JP. Recoil will be softer, and it will be more reliable. You're contemplating doing EXACTLY what I said gets people in trouble, and what you are claiming you are not doing---mixing and matching parts not meant to play together. If they were, JP would sell them as such. It may or may not work, but my bet is it would work, and recoil would just be stiffer and you would be giving up a good bit of the soft-shooting characteristics you have paid so dearly for on this competition piece. Total "compromise" move on something that looks like it started out as an uncompromising 3-gun build or something.
Old 01-30-2013, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndogggy View Post
"Just not mil-spec"... Their full mass stuff actually goes well beyond mil spec. The bolts are made out of sae 9310 high grade steel, not mil spec 8620. Generally speaking, Full mil spec is crap compared to jp. That being said, yes I am purposely getting a lightweight carrier that admittedly may not be as reliable.

And I still don't have an answer to my question. Is there any advantage of getting a 3 ounce jp lmos rifle buffer vs. A 3 ounce carbine buffer setup? Yes it is a jp upper, yes it is a jp lmos carrier, yes it is a jp adjustable gas port.
Carpenter 158 is still the "gold standard" for a bolt.

JP makes great stuff, though. My instructor's rifle at the last VTAC course I attended, and I believe one of the rifles that Kyle uses is made by JP, and JP has a LOT of lead down-range from competitors that use their stuff. All that said, I am just not a fan of using it except for competition, regarding their "lo-mass" stuff. I would use their full-mass stuff, but I don't see any benefit to it over a regular quality mil-spec BCG/buffer/etc. and it sure does cost more.
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