OK, i'll try this BJJ malarky.

[Jaqhama]

Originally Posted by ZZ7

Did the people at your all women Self Defense Academy give you a going away party at least?

Papa's been kind enough to share his on-going quest to search out a style that he feels suits him.

Why do you feel the need to insult him?

[Jaqhama]

Originally Posted by PapaWhiskyBravo

Not down here on the South Coast. Theres bugger all in my town. A lot going on in Perth, but 500km is a bit far to travel to get beaten up in a new style.

I thought the supermarkets were 500 kay apart in Western Oz?

[ZZ7]

Originally Posted by manisonenmi

BJJ is just a simple marketing name dating back to the first days of UFC when Gracie dominated. Judo, in the early 30s-60s was commonly referred to a Ju-Jitsu it wasn;t until it became an olympic sport that the word Judo became more popular. And, Jigoro Kano, the founder of Judo created from techniques of the two different schools of Ju-Jitsu tha the studied in his younger days. If you do the research Gracie's father learned Judo in Brazil from a japanese Judoka

This is nonsense and you're ignorant of what BJJ really is. If you're trying to say that BJJ is just Judo, then Judo is just Traditional Japanese Jujutsu. Because Kano was a master of Jujutsu who saw that while TJJ encompassed all aspects of fighting, many of the finger locks & finger breaking, crashing knee to the throat, etc. couldn't be trained at anywhere near full force and couldn't be used in competition....he developed Judo as the SPORTY version of TJJ. Now athletes were able to train and compete at 100% power using throws and non-small joint submissions, etc. in tournaments under the rules of Judo. Kano even brought in Western Wrestling techniques as he saw that they worked.

Kano even called it, Kano's Jujutsu first and later came up with the name Judo. Maeda was Kano's student and champion fighter. At that time, Judo was only in its infancy and probably still called, Kano's Jujutsu and therefore even closer to being a mirror image of plain ol' TJJ. All of the fighters were trained in TJJ, not just KJJ. TJJ and KJJ went hand in hand. Kano was still a master of TJJ and Maeda was still a student of TJJ and KJJ.

That's why when Maeda went to Brazil to fight and popularize Kano's JJ/Judo worldwide, he taught Helio and Carlos Gracie, "Jujutsu". That's what Helio said he heard out of Maeda's mouth, Jujutsu....which with their Brazilian accent, comes out Jiu-Jitsu. Maeda didn't say Judo (b/c it was no biggie....Judo was still TJJ), otherwise Helio would have named it Brazilian Judo. There wouldn't have been any big deal whether he named it either way because the Gracies weren't even close to being famous until around UFC 02 which was about 1994. They didn't have a crystal ball to foresee the explosion of BJJ after say, UFC 8 or so....to plan out as to whether it should be called BJJ or B-Judo in order to make more $$$. And I know this because I started BJJ in 1997 with a struggling (but growing) dojo, yet none like it for 300 miles to 3000 miles (in IL and CA).

BJJ is not just Judo, just like Judo is not just Traditional JJ. Obviously TJJ & Judo both have ground games that the Gracies learned from Maeda. But the Gracies took what Maeda taught them, and revolutionized the ground game into BJJ. That's why the Gracies mopped the floors with Judokas in the UFC, EFC, etc. because these Judokas didn't know many of BJJ's ground techniques. And I'm not talking about the submissions, because submissions are the same...but it's the transitions that are revolutionized in BJJ that Judokas were oblivious to. And since then, BJJ is still evolving and not even from within Brazil. 10 years ago, the Gracies didn't know what the X-Guard, Rubber Guard, 50/50 Guard, etc. were. And Judokas sure as hell didn't and most don't even know today.

My sensei, who's from a long line of Judokas in Brazil (w/his father being a 10th Dan Judoka) even admits that he thought he was a badass Judoka until he got badly whopped repeatedly by a BJJ who visited his family's Judo dojo. After that, he became a student under this Rickson Gracie BJJ that beat him.

[manisonenmi]

Originally Posted by ZZ7

This is nonsense and you're ignorant of what BJJ really is. If you're trying to say that BJJ is just Judo, then Judo is just Traditional Japanese Jujutsu. Because Kano was a master of Jujutsu who saw that while TJJ encompassed all aspects of fighting, many of the finger locks & finger breaking, crashing knee to the throat, etc. couldn't be trained at anywhere near full force and couldn't be used in competition....he developed Judo as the SPORTY version of TJJ. Now athletes were able to train and compete at 100% power using throws and non-small joint submissions, etc. in tournaments under the rules of Judo. Kano even brought in Western Wrestling techniques as he saw that they worked.

Kano even called it, Kano's Jujutsu first and later came up with the name Judo. Maeda was Kano's student and champion fighter. At that time, Judo was only in its infancy and probably still called, Kano's Jujutsu and therefore even closer to being a mirror image of plain ol' TJJ. All of the fighters were trained in TJJ, not just KJJ. TJJ and KJJ went hand in hand. Kano was still a master of TJJ and Maeda was still a student of TJJ and KJJ.

That's why when Maeda went to Brazil to fight and popularize Kano's JJ/Judo worldwide, he taught Helio and Carlos Gracie, "Jujutsu". That's what Helio said he heard out of Maeda's mouth, Jujutsu....which with their Brazilian accent, comes out Jiu-Jitsu. Maeda didn't say Judo (b/c it was no biggie....Judo was still TJJ), otherwise Helio would have named it Brazilian Judo. There wouldn't have been any big deal whether he named it either way because the Gracies weren't even close to being famous until around UFC 02 which was about 1994. They didn't have a crystal ball to foresee the explosion of BJJ after say, UFC 8 or so....to plan out as to whether it should be called BJJ or B-Judo in order to make more $$$. And I know this because I started BJJ in 1997 with a struggling (but growing) dojo, yet none like it for 300 miles to 3000 miles (in IL and CA).

BJJ is not just Judo, just like Judo is not just Traditional JJ. Obviously TJJ & Judo both have ground games that the Gracies learned from Maeda. But the Gracies took what Maeda taught them, and revolutionized the ground game into BJJ. That's why the Gracies mopped the floors with Judokas in the UFC, EFC, etc. because these Judokas didn't know many of BJJ's ground techniques. And I'm not talking about the submissions, because submissions are the same...but it's the transitions that are revolutionized in BJJ that Judokas were oblivious to. And since then, BJJ is still evolving and not even from within Brazil. 10 years ago, the Gracies didn't know what the X-Guard, Rubber Guard, 50/50 Guard, etc. were. And Judokas sure as hell didn't and most don't even know today.

My sensei, who's from a long line of Judokas in Brazil (w/his father being a 10th Dan Judoka) even admits that he thought he was a badass Judoka until he got badly whopped repeatedly by a BJJ who visited his family's Judo dojo. After that, he became a student under this Rickson Gracie BJJ that beat him.

We are both right and wrong at the same time or are choosing not to read carefully. Judo was derived from two different styles of ju-jitsu. Kano, had other vision for Judo, besides just being a self-defense/martial art. His life long goal was to see Judo become an olympic sport which was realized in the 1964 Tokyo Olympics. Because of Judo's popularity it has been watered down and many techniques not practices or allowed anymore in competition, therefore not practiced in the Dojo...Up until the 60s the term Judo and Ju-Jitsu was used interchangeably. What he old man Gracie learned was Judo but with the old,now barred, ju-jitsu techniques. If you look at old Judo books and still in some of the common practiced Judo Katas you will see hand strikes, kicks, etc. I never saw Gracie beat anyone on the mat with a technique that I had not practiced in Judo..What made him great was his technique and fighting spirit..The reason they never called it Brazilian Judo is because Judo is not seen as a fighting art anymore but rather a sport. Therefore my earlier statement of "marketing ploy" which btw I think is great.

[PapaWhiskyBravo]

Starting to force tap outs on some of the students now including a 130kg man mountain Muay Thai guy (i'm 85kg) the other night. Still getting utterly dominated by the experienced guys though, but they're taking longer to get the tap. Mind you, they ain't pushing themselves with me like they do with each other.

Learning how to pace myself and conserve energy during a grapple. To use it when needed in an explosive fashion.

Theres so many subtle componants to every technique. I'm still finding it very absorbing and i'm barely scratching the surface.

A lot of kicking practice on the heavy bags lately... I'm so crap at kicks. Need to really toughen my feet. After wednesdays class my toes were purple from the hundreds of low kicks we did. You wont get that kind of training in any Krav Maga class i can tell you!

Elbow combos coming along, i quite like them. Devastating power.

I want more take down practise though, its a missing piece of the puzzle.

[dontbuypotteryfromme]

Yeah we do bags of wrestling here. Focus on single leg double leg and winning the scramble.

For efficiency finish on top. That is where you need to be spending the effort. Sometimes with BJJ they like to play from their back dont get into that habit.

[PapaWhiskyBravo]

I've noticed a few guys seem to prefer being underneath and keeping their opponant in the guard. Easier to get triangles and arm bars from that pozzie. Good for competition, but you're quite right, it aint where you want to be in a real blue.

[dontbuypotteryfromme]

Not where you want to be if punching exists at all. But also being on top conserves energy a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXNroQ1-dWs

[PapaWhiskyBravo]

Thats some funny sh*t!

[Jaqhama]

Originally Posted by PapaWhiskyBravo

I've noticed a few guys seem to prefer being underneath and keeping their opponant in the guard. Easier to get triangles and arm bars from that pozzie. Good for competition, but you're quite right, it aint where you want to be in a real blue.

Hmmm...

Anyway

Out here in the cuds I discover some TKD McDojo is about to start offering TKD Kwon Bop Do (Man, I laughed when I read that the first time, ) at our local community hall.

I rang the number listed and found out it's a traditional type of class with the instructors calling people by their first names but the students calling the instructors Mr and Mrs Lastname...lots of bowing...white pajamas a must, yearly membership fee, yearly insurance fee...monthly training fee...all that stuff.
Adults train alongside children...yeesh...test for a new belt level every couple of months...yeah...it's a McDojo for sure.

(They even canvassed all the schools for three rural areas around and apparently got a good response.)

Once a month you can go to their main training headquarters and do a weekend seminar...like learning to use Escrima sticks or weaponry...wow...not bad...you can learn Escrima in a weekend...must be a pretty intensive course, that.

So my wife and I, being too old for bullcrap like calling people Mr and Mrs and bowing and wearing pajamas in public...and, God forbid, training with freaking 10 year olds..weren't interested...which is when the Black Belt lady instructor I was talking with on the phone informed me they also planned to do a Weds night one hour long women only self-defence, fitness, kickboxing course.
$7 bucks, pay as you go, shorts and t-shirts, no formality bull...so my wife is going to go along to the first course and see if she likes it.
It will just be a fun thing for her to for one hour a week.

Mrs Black Belt made a big deal about being first-aid accredited...I said good, you'll need to be, there's no emergency medical aid or Doctor's in our village..and the nearest hospital in a 30 minute drive away. She was a bit taken aback about that.

(My wife and I are first-aid accredited also, and hell, I've read Lofty's SAS survival guide, so I know how to pee on someone's open wound for a quick antiseptic.)

I'll let you know how my wife goes...as I've been teaching her the basics of Muay Thai and some stick/knife fighting I'm interested to see what she thinks of a women's self-defence kickboxing class.

First class isn't until Feb, so I've got a bit more time to perfect her kicks and punches before she goes 'public' as it were.

[Jaqhama]

Originally Posted by PapaWhiskyBravo

Starting to force tap outs on some of the students now including a 130kg man mountain Muay Thai guy (i'm 85kg) the other night. Still getting utterly dominated by the experienced guys though, but they're taking longer to get the tap. Mind you, they ain't pushing themselves with me like they do with each other.

Learning how to pace myself and conserve energy during a grapple. To use it when needed in an explosive fashion.

Theres so many subtle componants to every technique. I'm still finding it very absorbing and i'm barely scratching the surface.

A lot of kicking practice on the heavy bags lately... I'm so crap at kicks. Need to really toughen my feet. After wednesdays class my toes were purple from the hundreds of low kicks we did. You wont get that kind of training in any Krav Maga class i can tell you!

Elbow combos coming along, i quite like them. Devastating power.

I want more take down practise though, its a missing piece of the puzzle.

Good onya, mate.

Good to see you're enjoying yourself.

Toes...

When I'm on duty, or riding my motorcycle, or visiting a neighborhood I think I could maybe run into potential trouble in...I wear a pair of steel-toed industrial lace up boots. I like the standard sand coloured above the ankle Caterpillar for off duty and the black Steel Blue Portlands for work.

The point being, that if I've got to kick a real person, in a real situation, A: I'm not going to hurt my toes, and B: I am going to hurt them.

Question for: Dontbuypottiesfromme...Do you wear steel-toed or protective toed shoes/boots on the job?

Elbow strikes are great, arent they? Much better than a punch for close in work.
(Although I should invest in some elbow guards, because I tore a whole chunk of skin off my elbow on the heavy bag last week, not the first time I've done that. )

If you're fast and limber enough you can present an elbow to an opponent's fist as a block...kind of like a block and a strike at the same time.

As you're really getting into the grappling thing, maybe take a look at some of Scott Sullivan's training DVD's...as you probably know I do like Scott's stuff.

Here's the BJJ/Grappling section:
http://www.fightinstrong.com/brazilian-jiu-jitsu/

Discount code is HOLIDAY.

Keep us updated, mate.

[Dragunov]

Originally Posted by manisonenmi

We are both right and wrong at the same time or are choosing not to read carefully. Judo was derived from two different styles of ju-jitsu. Kano, had other vision for Judo, besides just being a self-defense/martial art. His life long goal was to see Judo become an olympic sport which was realized in the 1964 Tokyo Olympics. Because of Judo's popularity it has been watered down and many techniques not practices or allowed anymore in competition, therefore not practiced in the Dojo...Up until the 60s the term Judo and Ju-Jitsu was used interchangeably. What he old man Gracie learned was Judo but with the old,now barred, ju-jitsu techniques. If you look at old Judo books and still in some of the common practiced Judo Katas you will see hand strikes, kicks, etc. I never saw Gracie beat anyone on the mat with a technique that I had not practiced in Judo..What made him great was his technique and fighting spirit..The reason they never called it Brazilian Judo is because Judo is not seen as a fighting art anymore but rather a sport. Therefore my earlier statement of "marketing ploy" which btw I think is great.

I really don't care where it came from, or where it originated. If you're proficient with it, it will work for you. The "Martial art" (I don't really classify it as such) that I know and teach apparently has Celtic and/or Scottish roots from what I can tell. Do I care? No. Is it effective? Without question. Is it any better or worse than any other? That is purely subjective. I'm proficient with it, so it works for me. Z27 apparently is proficient in BJJ, Others are proficient in other "arts". If a Martial art doesn't work well for you for some reason or another, doesn't mean the art is bad, it means you need to find one that fits YOU. I know a fellow who is a 3rd degree black belt in TKW. He got his ass owned by a drunk in a bar one night. I know another fellow who is a 5th kyu in Aikidio. He has never tested past that point and has been studying it for 15 years. He is nearly untouchable. That doesn't make Aikido superior to TKW, it just comes down to if you're suited to the art you study, how proficient you are in employing it, and your own state of mind.

[dontbuypotteryfromme]

Originally Posted by Jaqhama

Good onya, mate.

Good to see you're enjoying yourself.

Toes...

When I'm on duty, or riding my motorcycle, or visiting a neighborhood I think I could maybe run into potential trouble in...I wear a pair of steel-toed industrial lace up boots. I like the standard sand coloured above the ankle Caterpillar for off duty and the black Steel Blue Portlands for work.

The point being, that if I've got to kick a real person, in a real situation, A: I'm not going to hurt my toes, and B: I am going to hurt them.

Question for: Dontbuypottiesfromme...Do you wear steel-toed or protective toed shoes/boots on the job?

Elbow strikes are great, arent they? Much better than a punch for close in work.
(Although I should invest in some elbow guards, because I tore a whole chunk of skin off my elbow on the heavy bag last week, not the first time I've done that. )

If you're fast and limber enough you can present an elbow to an opponent's fist as a block...kind of like a block and a strike at the same time.

As you're really getting into the grappling thing, maybe take a look at some of Scott Sullivan's training DVD's...as you probably know I do like Scott's stuff.

Here's the BJJ/Grappling section:
http://www.fightinstrong.com/brazilian-jiu-jitsu/

Discount code is HOLIDAY.

Keep us updated, mate.

In a MMA fight there is not all that much oportunity to throw fight finishing elbows. Exept mabye ground and pound.

I don't wear steel caps on the job. I am doing as much as I can to limit the damage i cause other people.

hell I don't even headlock people much anymore.

[dontbuypotteryfromme]

While I think of it jason scullys videos are great.

33 Solo Grappling BJJ Drills in 7 Minutes - Jason...

23 BJJ Transitions, Scrambles, and Counters in...

[Jaqhama]

Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme

In a MMA fight there is not all that much oportunity to throw fight finishing elbows. Exept mabye ground and pound.

I don't wear steel caps on the job. I am doing as much as I can to limit the damage i cause other people.

hell I don't even headlock people much anymore.

I'm not doing MMA.

I worry more about the damage someone might do to me, than vice versa.

I've always preferred the wrist locks and arm up behind the back than headlocks.

Elbows can be effective...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OowSKtuW8YA

The Master at work...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLUKJdkvu5w

[PapaWhiskyBravo]

Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme

23 BJJ Transitions, Scrambles, and Counters in Less Than 8 Min - Jason Scully - YouTube

I'm gonna study this over and over. Great vid, thanks.

[PapaWhiskyBravo]

Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme

He has gone to a jon will michado club so he is doing all right there.

John Will at GroundControl MMA - YouTube

We got a John Will Seminar coming up in March in Perth. Its a bit of a trek for me, but hopefully i'll be able to make it.