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Old 01-11-2013, 03:07 PM
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Default It's all about money!



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I was raised in a Christian home, but by the time I was 14 God was nil to me. By the time I was 18 I didn't believe there even was a God, and life seemed like some cosmic, bad joke.

Anyway, I've since been found and rescued by my Creator and have been involved in my local church for some time.....

However things are changing, and have been changing for a while. I worship at a fairly orthodox place, and while friends were easy to make, I've found out what makes them scatter like cockroaches when you turn on a light.

Ten years ago was making good money and was regularly being invited to other people's homes for lunch, social engagements and the like. While ever we were doing well and seeming to be climbing the socio-economic ladder, people wanted to be around us.

Now though, as things have changed a lot for us financially, so have things at church. Apart from one couple who make loads more money than we do, yet live fairly humbly, we haven't been invited to anyone's home for lunch since 2010. People whom we once spent much time with now hardly speak more than a hello when we see them.

All my friends have, in the last several years, gotten higher paying jobs or promotions that come with a pay rise. I however, have experienced the misfortune of having my income drop by around 40% and have had to adjust my lifestyle to suit.

When I lost my job in late 2010, only one person offered help, and that was the pastor, and not of his own pocket. Apparently there is made available up to $2,000 for loan at zero interest. I politely declined as I could not at that time guarantee repayment.

All this has made me think very hard about my relationship with my church, which last year spent $28,000 on one outreach program alone, and is set to spent $200,000 extending the church building to seat another 150 people.

This makes me consider greatly my affection for my church, and while I have no plans at all to allow this to affect my relationship with my Creator, it certainly has been a challenge for me, as I am very seriously considering resigning my membership from this church.

I know that for myself, I have found a church that believes on the whole what I believe, it just doesn't show at the moment, or the moments of the last two years. It seems everybody is so keen on doing God's work (and I'm still searching for that text on wealth aquisition) that brothers in trouble are.... too much trouble.

We need others of faith around us, that is a given, but what does one do when a brother in need is ignored indeed?
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:35 PM
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im sorry to hear what you are going through.

it seems as if the church actually does not believe on the whole what you believe however. The only thing i can say is that God is watching and will remember the actions or lack of action of your church.


maybe God is working through you to bring out in the open how they really treat people. you just never know.


either case God has placed you where he wishes for you to be in this moment. just keep praising our Creator even in tough times be content with what he provides you. He hears you and i pray He will keep you and your family safe.
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:38 PM
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Just remember it isn't the Church that makes you a Christian.
Best of luck on your journey.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:37 PM
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Have you entertained the slight possibilty.....it's just you and not them?
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:46 PM
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Have you entertained the slight possibilty.....it's just you and not them?
That's right. Keep the chains on them.

I watched the same dynamic he is talking about in every church I have ever been a member of and only the wealthy and the brainwashed sit there and try to defend it. Money is the root of all evil without a doubt. And human beings begging for it constantly in the name of God has to be one of the most pathetic tragedies of modern mankind.
Old 01-11-2013, 07:06 PM
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i believe Jesus will return to a apostate Church, totally lost from its beginnings
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:47 PM
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Oh I feel for your situation. Sometimes when we have a job loss though, or a cut in pay, we unknowingly isolate ourselves from others (I think it's also very common if someone gets divorced in the church).
Are you still active in your church? Have you invited other's over to your home? Do you go to the baby showers, wedding showers, Thanksgiving meals, Christmas meals, youth events, sunday school get togethers or do something to stay connected to the people in the congregation ( are you in the choir, do you volunteer to help out) ? Maybe your friends don't know how to approach you now that they know you are strapped financially? Or maybe they can tell you are angry, or upset and are afraid you are just waiting for an opportunity to let them have it? Give them a break. They go to church to have a relationship with their creator too. I think if you try to make those connections, most will respond. Try to be humble, and work through this. Everyone has problems. There is not one person going to your church that has a perfect life, it may seem like their's is better than yours, but to them it's not easy either.....Hang in there. What you are going through is for your benefit. God has a plan for you. Is it to learn patience? Is it to show other's a generous spirit even when financially handicaped? Is it so you will have lived this lesson to help someone later on accept what is happening to them?
I thank you for your post. I hope all that reads it will pray for God to show you his
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:35 PM
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I heard a joke once, I'll try to get it right:

A priest a preacher and a rabbi are trying to decide the best way to divide money with God. The priest says "lets draw a circle on the ground, throw the money into the air and whatever lands inside the circle, we give to God." The preachers says "how bout whatever lands outside the circle we give to God?" The rabbi says "lets throw the money into the air and God can keep what he wants."
Old 01-11-2013, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Jash View Post
I was raised in a Christian home, but by the time I was 14 God was nil to me. By the time I was 18 I didn't believe there even was a God, and life seemed like some cosmic, bad joke.

Anyway, I've since been found and rescued by my Creator and have been involved in my local church for some time.....

However things are changing, and have been changing for a while. I worship at a fairly orthodox place, and while friends were easy to make, I've found out what makes them scatter like cockroaches when you turn on a light.

Ten years ago was making good money and was regularly being invited to other people's homes for lunch, social engagements and the like. While ever we were doing well and seeming to be climbing the socio-economic ladder, people wanted to be around us.

Now though, as things have changed a lot for us financially, so have things at church. Apart from one couple who make loads more money than we do, yet live fairly humbly, we haven't been invited to anyone's home for lunch since 2010. People whom we once spent much time with now hardly speak more than a hello when we see them.

All my friends have, in the last several years, gotten higher paying jobs or promotions that come with a pay rise. I however, have experienced the misfortune of having my income drop by around 40% and have had to adjust my lifestyle to suit.

When I lost my job in late 2010, only one person offered help, and that was the pastor, and not of his own pocket. Apparently there is made available up to $2,000 for loan at zero interest. I politely declined as I could not at that time guarantee repayment.

All this has made me think very hard about my relationship with my church, which last year spent $28,000 on one outreach program alone, and is set to spent $200,000 extending the church building to seat another 150 people.

This makes me consider greatly my affection for my church, and while I have no plans at all to allow this to affect my relationship with my Creator, it certainly has been a challenge for me, as I am very seriously considering resigning my membership from this church.

I know that for myself, I have found a church that believes on the whole what I believe, it just doesn't show at the moment, or the moments of the last two years. It seems everybody is so keen on doing God's work (and I'm still searching for that text on wealth aquisition) that brothers in trouble are.... too much trouble.

We need others of faith around us, that is a given, but what does one do when a brother in need is ignored indeed?
I know how you feel. I had to do the same thing 28 years ago. I dont regret leaving my Church. I was a layminister, led a few to Christ. Everyone was shocked when I left. I helped build that church from 75 members to well over 300 in 4 years. After I left it went to over 700 members with yearly offerings over 2.5 million. Its gone now. Same problem, "The Love Of Money Is The Root Of All Evil". Much like the Laodiceans, God called me out, I remember the day. I get chills when I hear Christians witness to nonbelievers with the scripture, "Behold I Stand At The Door And Knock...." That Scripture is from 1 of the 7 letters to the 7 Churches in "The Revelation of John". That Scripture is spoken to the Church not Unbelievers. We named our Church "The Door". We started out well. Then we became just like the world, acted just like the nonbelievers in Society, worshipping success. It was sick. Im closer to God because I left, its been quite an adventure growing in faith that I could not have gotten in Church. I still lead people into relationship with God and it lasts. Maybe the Church needs to be perscuted and go back underground, maybe some of it has.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Jash View Post
We need others of faith around us, that is a given, but what does one do when a brother in need is ignored indeed?
You speak out. If they refuse to listen, you leave, as Christ is there in name only. There are many churches that fit the definition of Sardis in Revelations, that they have a name that they live, but are dead.
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:44 AM
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That's right. Keep the chains on them.

I watched the same dynamic he is talking about in every church I have ever been a member of and only the wealthy and the brainwashed sit there and try to defend it. Money is the root of all evil without a doubt. And human beings begging for it constantly in the name of God has to be one of the most pathetic tragedies of modern mankind.
How does that keep "Chains" on them?

Ever meet someone who constantly complains that they aren't respected, not paid attention too, not give enough credit etc...???

Not just in Church but in the work place? Typically they seem to blame all the bad people (as they see it) and everyone around them yet the common thread is "THEM".

Are there people that are so shallow that they require everyone around them to have a minimum income of 500K? Maybe, but that certainly isn't typical in any social setting!

Are there people who have a requirement of "friendship" a person must live in at least a million dollar home? I guess but someone that shallow typically has shallow relationships that are built on a superficial foundation that won't last.

Ever meet a child who claims everyone is out to get them, ever meet someone at work who claims the management is trying to fire them for no reason and their co-workers are "in-on-it"????

Chances are the "problem" with these folks is found in the reflection of their mirror and they find it easier to blame others for their social issues.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:20 AM
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jash View Post
I was raised in a Christian home, but by the time I was 14 God was nil to me. By the time I was 18 I didn't believe there even was a God, and life seemed like some cosmic, bad joke.

Anyway, I've since been found and rescued by my Creator and have been involved in my local church for some time.....

However things are changing, and have been changing for a while. I worship at a fairly orthodox place, and while friends were easy to make, I've found out what makes them scatter like cockroaches when you turn on a light.

Ten years ago was making good money and was regularly being invited to other people's homes for lunch, social engagements and the like. While ever we were doing well and seeming to be climbing the socio-economic ladder, people wanted to be around us.

Now though, as things have changed a lot for us financially, so have things at church. Apart from one couple who make loads more money than we do, yet live fairly humbly, we haven't been invited to anyone's home for lunch since 2010. People whom we once spent much time with now hardly speak more than a hello when we see them.

All my friends have, in the last several years, gotten higher paying jobs or promotions that come with a pay rise. I however, have experienced the misfortune of having my income drop by around 40% and have had to adjust my lifestyle to suit.

When I lost my job in late 2010, only one person offered help, and that was the pastor, and not of his own pocket. Apparently there is made available up to $2,000 for loan at zero interest. I politely declined as I could not at that time guarantee repayment.

All this has made me think very hard about my relationship with my church, which last year spent $28,000 on one outreach program alone, and is set to spent $200,000 extending the church building to seat another 150 people.

This makes me consider greatly my affection for my church, and while I have no plans at all to allow this to affect my relationship with my Creator, it certainly has been a challenge for me, as I am very seriously considering resigning my membership from this church.

I know that for myself, I have found a church that believes on the whole what I believe, it just doesn't show at the moment, or the moments of the last two years. It seems everybody is so keen on doing God's work (and I'm still searching for that text on wealth aquisition) that brothers in trouble are.... too much trouble.

We need others of faith around us, that is a given, but what does one do when a brother in need is ignored indeed?
If your looking for a perfect group of believers...well you meet them in heaven, down here on earth we are all human and not so perfect
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:18 AM
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How does that keep "Chains" on them?

Ever meet someone who constantly complains that they aren't respected, not paid attention too, not give enough credit etc...???

Not just in Church but in the work place? Typically they seem to blame all the bad people (as they see it) and everyone around them yet the common thread is "THEM".

Are there people that are so shallow that they require everyone around them to have a minimum income of 500K? Maybe, but that certainly isn't typical in any social setting!

Are there people who have a requirement of "friendship" a person must live in at least a million dollar home? I guess but someone that shallow typically has shallow relationships that are built on a superficial foundation that won't last.

Ever meet a child who claims everyone is out to get them, ever meet someone at work who claims the management is trying to fire them for no reason and their co-workers are "in-on-it"????

Chances are the "problem" with these folks is found in the reflection of their mirror and they find it easier to blame others for their social issues.

Are you saying that this poster his is not being honest and is blaming others and complaining?

Honestly who cares though ohioman. Do you walk up to a homeless man with a bag of food but as you reach to give it to him you decide to take it away because his attitude might be why he is on he streets? Do you even take it away because you see he has spent his only money on cigarettes instead of food? (I know those who would take it away for this reason)

But I wouldn't expect that you or anyone would put themselves in the judges seat to make such calls. That part Is not our job unless this man here has been blanantly lying to his congregation (and you are a part of the congregation). It doesn't seem that he is. Regardless you are assuming that thismust be the case and its getting close to slander.


We only have what information this man has given us so don't assume he is lying to you.

We have to keep our hearts softened and if someone takes advantage of our hearts then God is witnessing the sins of that person.
Old 01-12-2013, 09:39 AM
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=believer0119;5103832]Are you saying that this poster his is not being honest and is blaming others and complaining?
Read my post (#4) for your answer. I "ASKED" the question, and didn't make an allegation.


Quote:
Honestly who cares though ohioman. Do you walk up to a homeless man with a bag of food but as you reach to give it to him you decide to take it away because his attitude might be why he is on he streets? Do you even take it away because you see he has spent his only money on cigarettes instead of food? (I know those who would take it away for this reason)
Of course not believer. You have missed the points I made with the other poster about the "constant complainer" of other people.

Typically when someone finds constant conflict with co-workers, friends, family, people from Church etc.....it's them and not the people around them.

Have you ever raised small children where thes bahaviors start?

Quote:
But I wouldn't expect that you or anyone would put themselves in the judges seat to make such calls.
I didn't judge the poster, again read (post #4) where I asked for clarification. My other comments where directed to the other poster where I addressed the "constant people complainer".


Quote:
That part Is not our job unless this man here has been blanantly lying to his congregation. It doesn't seem that he is. Regardless you are assuming that this must be the case and its getting close to slander.
See above

Quote:
We only have what information this man has given us so don't assume he is lying to you.
Again, please read (post#4)

Quote:
We have to keep our hearts softened and if someone takes advantage of our hearts then God is witnessing the sins of that person.
No argument from me
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:42 AM
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If your looking for a perfect group of believers...well you meet them in heaven, down here on earth we are all human and not so perfect
Exactly!

If you look for perfection in people, you will be disappointed. Gosh, I learned this stuff around 8 years old.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:48 AM
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My fault Ohioman...I apologize for reading what you said backwards.....lol.

No wonder I was scratching my head.....dur....
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:29 AM
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My fault Ohioman...I apologize for reading what you said backwards.....lol.

No wonder I was scratching my head.....dur....
No problem believer
Old 01-12-2013, 11:53 AM
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Hi Jash,
didn't have the "christian" start you did but a lot of what you have said rings bells.
We used to go to a mainstream " church" , left because of unbiblical practices, a lot of our "friends" from church mysteriously haven't spoken to us since and its been best part of 15 - 20 years since we left.
Whatever assembly you meet at, none of you will be perfect, we are imperfect beings, being perfected.
It is my belief that most of " christendom" will fall away as the end draws near.
Stay close to the Lord and get what fellowship you can where you can.
For instance I have found that there are some good brothers to be foundon these boards, but again we are all just flawed people.
Keep your eyes fixed on him and he will guard your steps.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:58 PM
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If your looking for a perfect group of believers...well you meet them in heaven, down here on earth we are all human and not so perfect
I hear that alot from "Pastors", most of the time I think its an excuse for Greed and Hypocracy in our day.
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