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Old 01-06-2013, 08:35 PM
treepotater treepotater is offline
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Originally Posted by ski.ninja View Post
16 years is a tiny sample window. Time will tell on this one, but the influences are too broad to pin down any far-reaching conclusions in a time frame that small. If we look at the 100 year numbers...



We can see that a plateau like this is not necessarily an indication of an upcoming cooling trend. I would be totally stoked to see it happen in my lifetime, though.

And change scales to 500 years and other interesting cycles show up too. The important point for prepping is not what is or isn't causing it, it's being aware current conditions may not stay the same; just because we haven't experienced something in our lifetime doesn't mean it won't happen especially if it has happened at some point in the past.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by treepotater View Post
And change scales to 500 years and other interesting cycles show up too. The important point for prepping is not what is or isn't causing it, it's being aware current conditions may not stay the same; just because we haven't experienced something in our lifetime doesn't mean it won't happen especially if it has happened at some point in the past.
Interesting you should bring up the 500 year time scale.



Also, (again, back on topic) I'm pretty sure that my point was that it's not so much the change in climate as the way various structures are responding to it that brings out the more ridiculous denials and attacks (not that I include you in this category.) I fully support your claim that things change, as do the laws of thermodoynamics.
Old 01-07-2013, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Plasma1010 View Post
I will say that in my 27 years in NY, never has a storm like that happened.



How can you be a survivalist and support a tax ?

You can't live on your own and "survive" when you are forced to work and do things against your will.

Australia, a place where you just let your guns get taken away.
so you havent seen it in 27 years? that is why the link i had showed the history of storms hitting new jersey. if you clicked that link you would see that the 50's had a period similiar but worse than the last 2 years.
Old 01-07-2013, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ski.ninja View Post
16 years is a tiny sample window. Time will tell on this one, but the influences are too broad to pin down any far-reaching conclusions in a time frame that small. If we look at the 100 year numbers...



We can see that a plateau like this is not necessarily an indication of an upcoming cooling trend. I would be totally stoked to see it happen in my lifetime, though.
Please show me the annual gage R&R studies. You cannot therefore such a chart is absolutely meaningless. For any scientist to present such a chart without such a study and variation statistics is nothing short of fraud.
Old 01-07-2013, 10:30 AM
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Bottom line, the global average temperature is going up and is causing some really weird weather effects, which in turn are affecting ecosystems around the world. Including ours. We can deal with it or not deal with it, but it's easier to confront it on a systemic level now than it will be to clean it up on a global level in the future.
China is going to offset any "so called" progress we make.

And you think we are ever going to convince China to downsize is industrialization ?
Old 01-07-2013, 11:20 AM
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since the planet earth has been around several million years and the climate has changed many, many times,why do arrogant humans think the sea level they prefer is where it's gonna stay? talking about rising sea levels like it's something new?
Old 01-07-2013, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by greg48 View Post
since the planet earth has been around several million years ....
Several "million" years huh?

And those of you trying to convince the majority here with sound science and logic wonder why?

Just stick with Guns, NASCAR, Honey Boo Boo and hating those damn liberal left wing commies .... you'll fit right in.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:04 PM
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Several "million" years huh?

And those of you trying to convince the majority here with sound science and logic wonder why?

Just stick with Guns, NASCAR, Honey Boo Boo and hating those damn liberal left wing commies .... you'll fit right in.
I'll put my statistical analyst against your's any time. Make your case but post nothing without including the raw data or at least a full set of the statistical study. Do not forget proof and remember correlation is not proof of cause and effect. Absolutely no models.
Old 01-07-2013, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by PalmettoTree View Post
Please show me the annual gage R&R studies. You cannot therefore such a chart is absolutely meaningless. For any scientist to present such a chart without such a study and variation statistics is nothing short of fraud.
You want rigor, and that's fine. Not being a climate scientist (I am, at best, a snow scientist, and even then my observations are incredibly localized,) I shouldn't be the one to put that data together for you. As I've said, time will tell on this, but the moment it becomes politicized, ideology rears its head and all of a sudden the only good science is whatever happens to fit the doctrine. This has been observed with both positive and negative claims, and why I believe that climate change gets beat up on so much.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:10 PM
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I just can't figure it out.

With all the doomsday soothsayers around here that get so much traction, often with things as vague as 2012 Mayan Calendars, with what approaches 0 scientific evidence, we are believers.

But when science tells us a serious semi-doomsday scenario is on the horizon, and presents an overwhelming body of evidence to support it, it's head in the sand time! Nothing bad will ever happen to the environment, no matter what we do. Also, it's a vast left-wing conspiracy. How can this be anything but political? I mean, what is it that makes climate change denial "conservative?" When all the rest of the conservatives are already here, making doomsday predictions of their own? Why can the doomsday be almost anything, including other man-caused scenarios, but not sea level rise? Why this one scenario, other than because it happens to be championed by liberals? What if liberals decided to say "2012....Mayan Apocalypse!" tomorrrow? Would we have to close up camp, for fear of being called liberal?

I guess I am just missing something here. Explain to me how we can seriously consider other environmental disasters like the Yellowstone Supervolcano, CME, etc, but sea level rise/changing weather patterns is simply out of the question?
The answer is quite simple--"global warming" is a whipping boy because some elements of our society have politicized it to promote a political agenda. And, in case you haven't noticed, ANY political agenda will meet stiff opposition. Particularly when the advocates propose the kind of radical societal restructuring that global warming supporters are advocating.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:26 AM
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Yes, government spends taxpayer dollars, the government is funding the scientists.
And the tax payer funds the government.
Old 01-08-2013, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasma1010 View Post
I will say that in my 27 years in NY, never has a storm like that happened.



How can you be a survivalist and support a tax ?

You can't live on your own and "survive" when you are forced to work and do things against your will.

Australia, a place where you just let your guns get taken away.
Easy I am not a doomsday prepper thinking I will walk into the the wilderness like the guy from book of eli.

there will still be community there will still be things i have to do that I may not want to do.

I accept that as an adult I have personal responsibilities. Heck even as a survivalist I have this idea that I may be able to use my skills or equipment to help someone else.

or for the nasty snipe off.

America, where doing nothing and blaming everybody else is not really working out for you.
Old 01-08-2013, 02:43 AM
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Because it's a hoax. Al Gore and his ilk are just promoting it to make money and advance the cause of One World Government by eroding America's sovereignty through invasive international treaties.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:05 PM
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Australia is so hot, new colors are added to the weather map. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...195717230.html I can't understand why everyone is arguing back and forth about whether it's happening or not and about Algore and his theories etc. It's Happening everywhere so instead of arguing why aren't we looking for answers?
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post

America, where doing nothing and blaming everybody else is not really working out for you.
We're doing nothing because we can't stop the earth from being the earth. We're not control freaks like the rest of the socialist world that feels they need to take every minor opportunity to control someone or take their money.

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It's Happening everywhere so instead of arguing why aren't we looking for answers?
Because we have answers. Nobody agrees on them though.

If they find out Comet ISON is going to hit Earth at the end of the year, taxing us and stopping China from making plastic crap isn't going to stop it from happening.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Cinbad View Post
Australia is so hot, new colors are added to the weather map. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...195717230.html I can't understand why everyone is arguing back and forth about whether it's happening or not and about Algore and his theories etc. It's Happening everywhere so instead of arguing why aren't we looking for answers?
My answer is 'bring it on'! Hell, speed it up. I speak for many Canadians when I say winter sucks. That's why half our senior population spends the winter in Florida or Arizona.
Old 01-08-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Plasma1010 View Post
China is going to offset any "so called" progress we make.
so the logical argument is to exasperate the problem even FASTER?


heck, why arent you crying foul when we make nuclear power companies carefully store waste, spending billions of (ultimately) consumer dollars to do so when they can just pump the **** into the pacific ocean because the japaneese still havent stopped radioactive leaks at fukushima?
Old 01-08-2013, 04:54 PM
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so the logical argument is to exasperate the problem even FASTER?
Exasperate?

(exacerbate)

Sorry, I don't usually go all grammar Nazi, but that was just cute. So very blond.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:04 PM
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Exasperate?

(exacerbate)

Sorry, I don't usually go all grammar Nazi, but that was just cute. So very blond.
i blame google's spelling corrector
although the original fault is undoubtedly mine
Old 01-08-2013, 05:08 PM
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