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Old 01-01-2013, 05:21 PM
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I've got everything needed to reload now except primers, powder and bullets. I had no idea something extremely evil would occur. Tomorrow I'll be trying to take care of that and will move forward as I can.
I just checked Brownells for some other gear, as well as a backorder. They still have some bullets, 80 grain A-Max, and 76 grain A-Max/molly.....Sierra 77 grain Match King.....and some 1 lb kegs of various powder....IMR3031, IMR4064, and a lot of others. No primers, but you may want to check out the remaining bullets and powder.

Best Regards......Eagle Six
Old 01-01-2013, 05:46 PM
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Great info guys, I am about to order my first gun loading press.
BWAAAHHAAAHHHAAAAAAA(That is my evil interwebz laugh)

Welcome to the fold, my little minion.

Prepare yourself for hours of frustration, pain, headaches, nausea, runny nose, ringing ears, dizziness, anal leakage (oops, that's a side effect of marriage).

Along with years of happiness and pride.

Start slow and careful!
Old 01-02-2013, 11:26 AM
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1/2/13.. things back to normal and education resumes. G David Tubbs is an interesting fellow.
Beyond interesting, I think he is a bit on the weird side......course there are those who think I'm weird (....hell, I'm one of them !). No doubt that boy can shoot, and no doubt he has contributed to the shooting sport, like many other icons of the greats. He is, in my opinion, one of those guys driven by commitment, focused on his art, and blessed to be one of those God Like Grand Master Champions.

We may not agree with everything he says or does, but there can be no argument about the authority of accomplishments from which he speaks. When G. David Tubbs opens his mouth, I close mine and open my ears!


Best Regards......Eagle Six

Last edited by Eagle Six; 01-02-2013 at 12:27 PM..
Old 01-03-2013, 09:05 AM
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Morning,

Swallow your coffee before reading this. Don't want you spitting on yourself.

Day1 Mistake 1.

Sierra 77 gr .224. Bought some but there is no cannelure.

Since these will be loaded 1 at a time there won't be any recoil banging on them. The only whack will be the bolt coming forward.

Can the lack of a cannelure be worked around or do I need a Binford 2000 canneluring tool? Can I add a slight crimp without a cannelure?

I weighed the bullets, a 0.1 gr difference in the entire lot. 77.1-77.2 gr and that was it.

The 55 gr had a 0.5 gr spread. 55.0 to 55.5 gr.

I'll never be out of work mainly because every village needs an idiot.

I must agree that G David is one consumed fellow and would shudder at what I consider to be good practical shooting (I'm not referring to 200 standing, all 20 inside the 8 ring would meet my idea of practical and i haven't done that yet)

Funny how we humans strive for mechanical perfection (pick any sport) but don't like the coldness of many of the machines we need to interact with.
Old 01-03-2013, 11:56 AM
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Sierra 77 gr .224. Bought some but there is no cannelure.

Since these will be loaded 1 at a time there won't be any recoil banging on them. The only whack will be the bolt coming forward.

Can the lack of a cannelure be worked around or do I need a Binford 2000 canneluring tool? Can I add a slight crimp without a cannelure?
....Yes, No, Yes.....

"Can the lack of a cannelure be worked around"......yes, just load them and shoot them 1 at a time.

"do I need a Binford 2000 canneluring tool?"......no, most likely the tool process will destroy the accuracy value of the bullets.

"Can I add a slight crimp without a cannelure?".......yes, it's referred to as a taper crimp, but it's tricky.


I taper crimp some 308 loads. The crimp is about 1.5 thousands. Sometimes it will improve, or not effect accuracy, often it will degrade accuracy. Cases have to be trimmed to the exact same length and cut square to the neck. But even then, if the necks are not turned to the same thickness, or the brass has been over-worked from repeated firings (without being annealed), the taper crimp can cause misalignment of the bullet when it gets started out of the neck from building pressure. I'm referring to sub-MOA accuracy, not hunting or machinegun accuracy.

For those bullets which will seat deep enough to fit in the magazine, the normal friction/tension of the neck should prevent the bullet from being pounded into the case from previous recoil. If you are using a standard set of FL dies and the standard size expander ball, there should be 3-5 thousand neck tension. This tension/friction should hold the bullet at seating depth for 4-5 rounds. This might not be true with a 20-30 round magazine full (which provides 19-29 recoils), but only a test of your loads will tell the tale.

Precision shooters normally use no crimp of any kind......it normally will add to the frustration of tuning an accuracy load. So, I avoid it when I can, and that is anytime it doesn't provide an advantage over the accuracy loss.

I do crimp battle ammo. Mostly for 223/556, it is a roll crimp in the cannelure. For 308/7.62 I taper crimp .001-.0015", which by the way is almost impossible to measure accurately!

A standard Federal 308 Gold Medal Match case neck is .0145 - .015". A typical FL sizing die will compress the OD of the neck to .330-.332". That produces an ID of .300-.302" and yields about .006" neck tension. I have never had a Federal Gold Medal Match bullet slide into the case when fired in box magazine rifles. Usually, .003"-.004" neck tension is sufficient to hold the bullet under the impact of repeated recoil from previous rounds fired.

Your mileage may be different, but a simple test will provide the answer.


Best Regards.......Eagle Six
Old 01-03-2013, 12:55 PM
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For my "one-at-a-time" ammo in my bolt gun, I use no crimp at all.

For the magazine-fed ammo and hunting rounds, I decided to go with the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

It adds another step to the process, but gives pretty consistant results.

Then again, I use a wide variety of brass that I don't sort by headstamp, weight, age, sex, or national origion.

I sort by caliber and rifle.

Tumble, size/deprime, trim(if needed), deburr, tumble, throw in a bucket.

When I have some down-time (or just get bored), I'll clean the primer pockets and seat primers, then put 'em back in a bucket.

When the mood strikes me, as it did over the holidays, I break out the dies.

I did over 1500 .308, and 1000 .45acp's. Not to mention a couple hundred 30-30's.

All on a single-stage press!

I cast about 100 pounds of .30cal, .357's and .45's too.

Everyone has heard of "tennis elbow".....I have reloaders elbow.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:06 PM
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Want people that practice what they preach?

Great load info and lotsa helpful reloaders!

http://www.longrangehunting.com
Old 01-04-2013, 04:19 PM
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Default Prep Day

......this morning I think I got a good taste of MJ's environment!

15*F and a 10 mph wind......that's a bit chilly, but the sun was shinning, so it was time to get a load for the local pesky dogs.

The load......no special brass prep, Remington once fired, BR4 primers, 25.5 grains of Varget, Hornady 40 grain V-Max bullet, seated to 2.250". On the minimum load side, but with Remington brass and Varget powder, this is just shy of a compressed load, with the Hornady bullet.

Rifle (using the term loosely)......My old ugly AR-15, headspaced to "Field" grade, Wilson floated 16" flutted and ported barrel 1-in-9, Mil-Spec trigger, 10x SS1043 scope (this setup is repeatedly capable of sub-MOA with match grade ammo).

The coyotes have been growing their pack and coming in close. Normal distance shot in this area is 175 yards. I needed a 2-MOA-of-Coyote load that would blow-up on hard impact. Today, I made a guess, and got what I need.

Not having any components, I felt like MJ, yesterday at the local shop, begging for bullets like a pilgrim. The only primers were BR4, the only 22 caliber bullets were 40 grain Hornady V-Max (brand and type good, weight was way below what I wanted......wanting for something is this market is just wishful thinking.......you get what is there to be got!).

3 rounds for sight-in (about .75" high at a hundred......puts it 1 Mil low at 300). Took a guess at the load (with only a hundred bullets and primers, not a lot to waste on development), 1st group 1 MOA, 2nd group 1 1/8 MOA, final group .75 MOA (I haven't driven this rifle in a while, so probably me getting settled down in the drivers seat). Zero'ed, tested and ready to go in less than 20 rounds......not the best I could get I'm sure, but I'm plenty satisfied with the outcome, especially pushing 40 grainers down a 1/9 twist barrel.

I have a lot of open space in my neighborhood, as I have ranges out to 500 yards on my property, but I also have neighbors in every direction, who are within 5 miles. I wanted a bullet that is known to blow up on impact on hard surfaces (we have a lot of those), and no local dealers had any light weight varmit bullets for the 308. My other choices are the 45 ACP, 22 rimfire and 12 gauge......all of them a bit short when going out past 75 yards. Without a blind and coyote call, I need something that can reach out to 300 yards and stop at a rock if I do the unbelievable, like miss!!!

Now, if I can get out of bed early and do my job, I should have some coyote steaks on the grill tomorrow night......yummy!


Best Regards.......Eagle Six
Old 01-05-2013, 01:43 AM
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Mesquite grilled 'yote steaks.....MMMMM-mmmm good!

Take the powdered stuff from an MRE packet and mix them all together for a rub, and douse it with Tabasco.....good eatin'.

E6, I have some 55gr FMJ's if you want them, I don't have a .223 anymore.

I'm glad I laid in a good supply BEFORE things went sideways with this country.
Old 01-05-2013, 11:14 AM
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Mesquite grilled 'yote steaks.....MMMMM-mmmm good!

Take the powdered stuff from an MRE packet and mix them all together for a rub, and douse it with Tabasco.....good eatin'.

E6, I have some 55gr FMJ's if you want them, I don't have a .223 anymore.

I'm glad I laid in a good supply BEFORE things went sideways with this country.
Thanks Grumpy for the recipe, I have the grill, lots of MRE's and Tabasco......now I need the coyote steaks! Nothing was moving this morning, and after an hour sitting in 8*F morning temperature, my fingers and toes weren't moving to well either. Apparently there was a lack of communications between me and the wife! I left early to setup in the hide, expecting her and dog to take their morning walk as usual. They were going to be the bait! Instead she laid back keeping the fire going. After I thawed out and had a little discussion, we should be better coordinated tomorrow morning!

Also, Thank You for the FMJ offer. I have close to 10,000 rounds (...oops, maybe I shouldn't say that!) loaded with FMJ, but those little pills have a tendency to smack off rocks and keep flying for a ways, which I want to avoid if possible.

Good that you have some supplies laid back, now that we are sideways in this country. Wonder what I will do with all that 223 ammo, when my AR has been outlawed? Maybe it's time to look for a 223 barreled action!


Best Regards........E6
Old 01-05-2013, 12:16 PM
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If AR's and the like are outlawed, I figure there will be a whole lot more outlaws in this country.

I guess I will make the news like Randy Weaver and David Koresh.

Of course, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Paul Revere, and all their buddies were considered traitors and terrorists by the Crown when they stood up to the largest, best trained military in the world of that time.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:08 PM
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Welcome to reloading, its just physics and weights/measures with a potential physical consequence.

Ive been reloading for about 10 years now, its saved me alot but MOSTLY its really fun to do.....with the exception of length trimming ESPECIALLY wildcats. That and cleaning corn media out of flash holes sucks too. Brass prep is a fantastic reason to go have a couple beers in the garage.

This is a lifetime investment in your survival as well as a hobby, enjoy it and keep components on hand. Here in socal the panic has ensued over the gun grabbing and the shelves are EMPTY of all primers and powders, so make sure you keep alot on hand.
Old 01-07-2013, 03:58 PM
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I'm shooting with people that are dressed like this fellow. Many have comparable rifles. 200 standing. I love it. That doesn't mean I'm any good, but I'm going, paying, shooting, scoring.

Big ugly black walmart ear protection over a teal green (neighbor told me it was teal) stocking cap. My oldest pullover fleece (most holes caused by flying embers). My right hand has a wool glove with the finger tips cut off (winter work gloves). Always buy XL/XXL jackets, you can pull your hands inside and out of the weather. Carry my 20 rounds in an inside pocket and lay them out on the left hand glove so they won't roll away.

134/200 first time, fella named Joe was a good man and literally stood beside my on this first attempt (showing me the ropes). 166/200 on my second attempt (solo). G David Tubbs, I have an autographed edition.

I literally hold the door open so some of these folks can carry all their stuff in. Apparently I need a jacket, glove, hat, glasses, stool, special multi use stand and scope, 3K + ??.

Isn't gonna happen. G D T and the gym will get me to 180 +/-, I'd prefer +. Practical shooting.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:53 AM
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Morning,

Sierra 77 gr .224. Bought some but there is no cannelure.

Since these will be loaded 1 at a time there won't be any recoil banging on them. The only whack will be the bolt coming forward.

Can the lack of a cannelure be worked around or do I need a Binford 2000 canneluring tool? Can I add a slight crimp without a cannelure?

I weighed the bullets, a 0.1 gr difference in the entire lot. 77.1-77.2 gr and that was it.

The 55 gr had a 0.5 gr spread. 55.0 to 55.5 gr.

There are two types of crimp, roll and taper. Get a Lee .223 crimp die and taper crimp your round like you would a pistol round. (run you round through the die, nothing special) This will give you consistent neck tension.

Just a suggestion, make 5 rounds of 55 and 55.5 and each w/ .5 grains of powder difference and so on.

Now chrono your loads and test for accuracy from a bench at 50/100 yards.

You might be surprised at your results.
Old 01-09-2013, 06:28 PM
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In general I would avoid crimping. If you have a good reason, then I would follow "0002S's" suggestion for the Lee Factory Crimp Die, or a Dillon Taper Crimp Die.

Although I have experienced times when a taper crimp has improved accuracy, it was by a very small margin and if I didn't get all the other brass prep performed just right, I would get some wild flyers.

Holding the bullet back to achieve a better/sooner combustion curve may not over come the abnormal bullet release and degrade accuracy. With so many variables from primers, primer seat depth, powder lots and burn rates, as well as load density/brass volume, to bullet seating depth, neck tension, neck uniformity and concentricity.......crimping certainly is not magic that will improve accuracy. It may, but most likely may not. Depending on the other load combination and uniformity, it's been my experience there are but a few chambers and throats which like a shallow taper crimp.

If the concern is bullet set-back (....or battle ammunition), then proper crimping will overcome this concern. If that is not a concern, bullet crimping is something we can try, usually toward the back side of the load development as a trial and error for improvement. For accuracy improvement I prefer a very shallow taper crimp on a non-cannelure bullet.

If a cannelure bullet is used, less than half of the cannelure should be visible after the crimp operation (especially if the rounds are going to feed to a repeater from a box magazine)......but it doesn't have to be. You could actually crimp below the grove and the entire cannelure show. It's an experimentation some times worth the effort, usually not. If a cannelure is going to offer improved performance (outside of preventing set-back), neck thickness, neck annealing, neck tension, neck mouth chamfering, case length, should all be as uniform (...that is spelled "consistent") as possible and the more uniform they are the better the results.


Best Regards.......Eagle Six
Old 01-09-2013, 07:05 PM
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Crimping is best for slower burning powders to help with uniform combustion.
Old 01-10-2013, 06:25 PM
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134/200 first time, fella named Joe was a good man and literally stood beside my on this first attempt (showing me the ropes). 166/200 on my second attempt (solo). G David Tubbs, I have an autographed edition.
As a reference.....I used to hold Day 2 of our Level-I Precision Field Rifle Hunter/Sniper class at the Rifle Silhouette range. Throughout the day student shots at all the distances and all the different type steel targets and the targets were also mixed up, placing the small ones at the extreme distance, etc.

Along with marksmanship, positions, and a whole lot more, was an exercise of humiliation! This involved giving the students an opportunity to shoot the 200 meter chickens, off-hand, just like the Rifle Silhouette High Power competitors do. The regulation steel chicken is of course shaped like a chicken at about 13" beak to tail and about 5" tale. Distance, 219 yards. The very best ever achieved by our students (a few hundred), of all levels, was 50%!!! That was 5 hits out of 10, and most were 1 hit out of 10 or less!!!!

My point.....166 out of 200, for your second time out.......damn good in my book


Best Regards.......E6
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:32 PM
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...way off topic.....but I'm going to do it anyway, even though there are many post about this.....

This coming Saturday, January 19th, at high noon, I will be standing on the Arizona State Capital lawn, along side about 3,000 other patriots attending the Call to Action, March on the State Capitals rally/protest/demonstration, voicing my opinion against the whitehouse and anti-American liberal attempts to again illegally restrict my God given and natural born rights, protected by the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Best Regards.......Eagle Six
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:21 PM
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Dog and myself too were standing in front of our state house this last Saturday. Everyone from those of us demonstrating, to the police, to the fellow from the 54th regiment (a re-enactor) were in very good order.

The police were exemplary in their actions. the demonstrators were polite and somewhat subdued. The re-enactor was a good man but was torn between his roots and this demonstration. None the less, a good man.

It was somewhat comical watching people that care more about the price of their haircuts than what this fight is really about as they rolled their eyes and huffed off for a latte after muttering something witty like "Gun Nuts"

Best placard I saw "Hard Cases make Bad Law". that pretty much describes the situation in a nut shell for me.

GDT is getting dog-eared. 176 w/1X.. He says to shoot agressively and I do. I'm just a little late, I press just that millisecond too late which means I'm on the way out rather than shooting a millisecond early so that I'm shooting on the way in. 15/20 in the black and I'm calling them. Someone suggested I plot my shots so I can be more betterer at calling them. This will be easy enough to do now that I have the routine down.

I placed 19th out of 24 with my 176/200. Doesn't sound like much but, I'm proud of my efforts. There were several mid 190s (193-195) shot today.

It's a shame what those that don't are able to do to those that actually can.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:08 PM
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When these rallies at your state house are held please make an effort to attend, first things first though.

The shooters.

I'm curious about medications prescribed? I thought your hair and fingernails were a history of what you've ingested over the past X number of months. I would think their blood would describe the previous 24 or more hours.

I'm overwhelmed by the sorry SOBs, the worthless animals that have almost willingly lined up loking for their opportunity for 15 minutes.

It's become a stampede of lemmings just looking for a cliff.
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