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Old 01-01-2013, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Karnus View Post
On principle I would defend him. Simply for being an American. His being a LEO has little to do with my opinion of him running afoul of laws designed to undermine the 2A.

That would change however, the moment someone could show that he has enforced unconstitutional laws, against a civilian. One charge is all it would take. But until then...
The problem with those statements is that both depend entirely upon your personal opinion of the Constitution or Constitutional law. Those opinions are invalid when facing the enforceable laws on the books.
Old 01-01-2013, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by xtra fox View Post
Hmm, that's not been my overall experience. Police are individuals. Blaming all the individuals for the actions of some of the individuals is illogical. There are some bad cops, a lot of them actually. But those aren't the ones you should align yourself with.
I think bad cops are rare. Just like bad firemen are rare. It's just when they stand out, people really take notice.

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Originally Posted by Dryades View Post
I dont care if he is a cop or not. He is always a citizen of the State. If the law is its illegal then its a crime. Isn't that what they tell us? Know body should be above the law.
Seriously? So what are you going to say about the law when they make your semi-automatic illegal?

I already told my sheriff husband that I will not give up my guns! He said, 'whatever' but I wanted him to know in advance where I stand on the issue. it's a red line for me.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by comdot View Post
Ramsey, NJ, police said they took a total of 10 weapons from Haner after his wife asked for a temporary restraining order.

That's where he messed up. If you have something to hide, either hide it from everyone or don't invoke the wrath of your domestic partner.
Lord that is the truth and that is why the last 4 firearms I bought I didn't tell my husband about. I just put them in the safe.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tackleberry2000 View Post
Still waiting for some one to ask the question of why she wanted a restraining order?? If for domestic abuse then didn't they have to get a warrant to go in the place or did he **** off the wife and she ratted him out and wanted protection with a restraining order?? Did he buy them before the ban? Was there a grandfather clause?? Lots of unanswered questions in my book to make a decision.
Most times a divorce situation comes up women jump on the band wagon getting a restraining order. White male even raises his voice and he gets a restraining order. Never mind the fact that there are a lot of white men getting the **** slapped out of them because if they dare fight back they'll end up in jail.

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Originally Posted by Kimberuser View Post
The liberals are brilliant. They know there are officers that support the second amendment , and that they would probably not comply with gun grabbing. How do they solve it? Go after the police and get them to give up their personal arms. Have them suspended from the force. That is one way to remove oath keepers. They are not as stupid as I have pegged them.
Brilliant observation and also true concerning all our military coming home diagnosed with PTSD and now being unable to legally own arms.

Also consider how many people are getting diagnosed with mental illness like bi-polar disorder who also may be in jeopardy of losing their 2nd A rights.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by xtra fox View Post
Well I've ask this question to two people in this thread and neither will answer me so ill pose the question to everyone else:

YES what this cop did was illegal. But, would YOU want HIM to enforce this law against YOU if it were illegal to posses "assault" weapons in your state? Yes or no?

If not, then you cannot support him being punished by this law without being a hypocrit.

And before you say "well in my state it's legal", what if the law were changed tomorrow? What if you became a criminal the instant your state decided to pass a gun ban? Would you support the cops enforcing the new law or would you DEMAND that they honor their oath to the constitution and refuse to obey and unlawful order?
I'll answer the question.....


NO! I would not want him to enforce an unconstitutional law against me. If things go as badly as I think they will, we are going to need our LEO's and military to recognize the difference between laws that are Constitutional and laws that are not.

We need ALL these guys on our side if we're ever going to defend the Constitution and freedom. We're at the jump-off point. Pick your side.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:53 PM
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Well, he should have known better, and as a Squeeky Clean Law Abider, I guess I can't defend him. I don't like "Double Standards", and just because he's LEO, does'nt make him free to break the Law. It's like that good Thread about LEOs Speeding and causing Traffic Deaths.
Heck, I'm a Combat Veteran, but I did'nt get to bring home the M240 or the Ma' Duece. ****, they took away our Ammo when we crossed back into Kuwait.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bobsmith View Post
jesus penis!
176k for a security guard at the tunnel?
Bobsmith,

Why do you men always have to get your penis involved? I'll never understand.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by xtra fox View Post
The powers that be want to steer the country toward a tyrannical dictatorship. They want easily controlled subjects to provide them with all their wants and desires.

Tell them HELL NO! Tell them they screwed up by trying this in America! Tell them Molon mother******* labe! Tell them in no uncertain terms "NO!!!!!!!!"

NO!!! It's been done across the globe for centuries but YOU WILL NOT DO IT HERE!

We are not Australians, we are not British subjects, we are not WWII Jews and we are not Syrian citizens!

You flat out WILL NOT DISARM US!

Hallelujah! Jesus Christ! Holy s****!

Happy new year patriots, Godspeed!
This!~ ^^^^ I will not comply!!!
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SamboRoberts View Post
I'm Australian...We weren't disarmed.
SamboRoberts, Yes you were! They took 640,000 rifles from you with an approximate population of 23 million, under threat of being arrested! In addition, they made you put all your hand guns in a safe so if your being victimized your hand guns are not at the ready!
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:17 PM
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The avg. Cop couldn,t tell me a thing about the U.S. Constitution.
Old 01-01-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Levant View Post
If you or I disagree with a law, we get to choose to disobey it. The Supreme Court has ruled that there is no obligation to obey an unconstitutional law. Of course, in doing so we risk jail until we prove the law is unconstitutional.

A cop, on the other hand, enforces the law. Ethically and morally he doesn't get to choose to disobey laws he disagrees with and to arrest you and me for doing the same thing. That makes him a hypocrite.


When a law enforcer or a law maker violates the laws (any of the whole set of laws) they enforce or impose on others then their punishment needs to be much more severe than the punishment of others. Oathbreaker said this guy will be made an example of. He needs to be made an example of.
This is a really good point. But what if the law is unconstitutuinal in the first place? Then where does the obligation/loyalty of the LEO stand?
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:23 PM
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Until more info comes to light the bloke sounds like a stand up kind of guy and a decent cop with a bitch for a wife who is being made an example of purely because of the current hysteria. His gun accessories may have been legal when he stuck them on and maybe covered by grandfathering. In any event this BS doesn't sound like it is in the public interest considering his previous record of service and the years he could still offer in the job.

If his cow of a wife thought she'd be getting a mint of money it looks like she might have to kiss that goodbye if his case drags on and he's suspended without pay.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Yehudi View Post
That is a lie. I properly used the quote feature for each line to which I responded. It allows each of my comments to be seen when quoting my post. Harmless Drudge bypassed that by responding in cutesy red within the quote. When someone tries to use the quote feature on his post, only his last line from his post can be seen in the quote feature. IOW, in order to respond to his comments with a quote, a person must type in his comment by hand from the main post. Because of the Survivalist Boards software, trying to copy from the main post locks up my computer, and I am not about to hand type his comments in order to respond.


Wikipedia is not a reliable source, especially for technical items. I have been following the precepts of Logical Fallacies for a very long time, from credible sources such as Stephen’s. I know them well, and it is irritating to see someone try to twist a response by using one of the Logical Fallacies.
So if it is actually the system that is flawed, not Harmless Drudge, why do you blame him? He operated completely in an acceptable manner.

I think wiki actually has more credibility than you do. You may toss around terms and names, but it doesn't mean you have comprehension at any level.
You may follow precepts, but you do not have much knowledge. It is really irritating to see people pawn themselves off as intelligent when they have no real inkling of what they speak.
Old 01-01-2013, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Boredom View Post
LEO's should be held to a higher standard. They are sworn officer's of the court, entrusted by that authority in administering those laws. To that effect, they have a moral and ethical responsibility to uphold the laws that they are expected to bind upon others. Their empowerment brings with it responsibilities.
Even if the laws they are enorcing are from a tyrannical govt. who does not acknowledge those laws themselves?

Benghazi?

American citizens being murdered without due process?

Fast and furious?

We have a tyrannical govt. should LEO's defend it? Then they're no different than Hitlers SS Nazi soldiers.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JDH View Post
Under Lautneberg a restraining order is a disqualifier to firearms possession. She has been issued a restraining order, he cannot have a firearm, his job requires him to be armed, so he is no longer able to perform his duties until the order is lifted.
This is the crux of the issue. Once a spouse, domestic partner, one's child(ren), or the child(ren) of a spouse or domestic partner have been granted a restraining order against you, you cannot own guns. End of story.

Before I was allowed to buy my AK-47, I had to answer a series of questions to determine if I was qualified to own a gun. Among those questions (in my "shall issue" state) were: Had I ever been convicted of a felony? Used illegal drugs? Been involuntarily committed or declared mentally incompetent?

Had I ever had a restraining order issued against me by a spouse or domestic partner, the children thereof, or my own children?

The questions are the same no matter whether you're a brawny LEO or a little old lady like me -- and the result of an affirmative answer to any of them is the same, too.

No guns. No more, not ever.

He's finished as a beat cop. They may be able to transfer him to a desk job; but he'll never own another gun.

So... either be really nice to your spouses and your children...

... or stay away from them completely, giving them no grounds to be granted a restraining order, nor reason to seek one...

... or be prepared to give up your right to own and carry.

I'll tell you, those questions made me really glad that when our daughter went crazy two years ago and accused me of stalking her, I faded away completely before it could ever become a legal issue. I didn't fight about it, even though I had proof that I was hundreds of miles away at the time in question. I didn't fight because proof or no proof, I could have been booked and spent a couple of nights in jail before a judge would ever have seen that proof. No thank you!

I've never been in jail, not even to visit someone else, and I don't intend to start this late in the day. As far as I'm concerned, our daughter can go to 773H in her own way, without me or my help. I've told everyone else in the family that she will have to contact me first if she wants to talk with me, because I will never email her, call her, write to her, or even allow anyone to give me her current address.

I'm not risking a felony charge and the loss of our firearms just because she decided to do drugs and go crazy.

I hope that no one else here has to go through that kind of tough decision with their own children. It was heartbreaking.

-- Paravani
Old 01-01-2013, 06:42 PM
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Pavarani,

Your story is not unique here. There are many parents going through the same thing and TPTB do not help. In fact, I think they make it worse.

We went through a similar problem with our last son. He's been smoking dope for quite awhile. The problem became an over bearing one where we were going to counseling every stinking day for months on end. Things just continued to get progressively worse.

I finally said, NO! I stopped everything. All the counseling, all the appointments, everything.

I got to the point where I just accepted the fact hat my kid was going to be a stoner and left it at that. I can't change his behavior but I can control mine.'

So my almost 18 year old son has no privileges. No car, computer, x-box, phone. nothing. I refuse to pay for it. He's 18 years old Jan. 31st. He's not graduated high school and isn't working. He lives here of me and his dad.

I refuse to pay for his crap when he should be a man. But he's not. How much of this is my fault for spoiling him.? IDK. Probably a lot.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Boredom View Post
So if it is actually the system that is flawed, not Harmless Drudge, why do you blame him? He operated completely in an acceptable manner.
No he did not. Instead of using the quote function properly, he inappropriately included his personal comment inside what is a direct quote from me. If he had put his comments outside the quote, as is proper procedure, then there would be no problem. Only a few members bypass the quote feature so they can use their cutesy colored responses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boredom View Post
I think wiki actually has more credibility than you do. You may toss around terms and names, but it doesn't mean you have comprehension at any level.
You may follow precepts, but you do not have much knowledge. It is really irritating to see people pawn themselves off as intelligent when they have no real inkling of what they speak.
You are welcome to your opinion. However, since you don’t know me, your comments are uniformed and irrelevant.
Old 01-01-2013, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Paravani View Post
This is the crux of the issue. Once a spouse, domestic partner, one's child(ren), or the child(ren) of a spouse or domestic partner have been granted a restraining order against you, you cannot own guns. End of story.
That is incorrect. He can own them, he simply cannot possess them (have them in his possession). The law is quite clear on that.
Old 01-01-2013, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yehudi View Post
No he did not. Instead of using the quote function properly, he inappropriately included his personal comment inside what is a direct quote from me. If he had put his comments outside the quote, as is proper procedure, then there would be no problem. Only a few members bypass the quote feature so they can use their cutesy colored responses.


You are welcome to your opinion. However, since you don’t know me, your comments are uniformed and irrelevant.
Actually, a lot of members use alternate colored letters inside quotes, when there are a lot of individual statements to respond to. It's better than trying to cut and paste the [QUOTE=blahblahbla/QUOTE] crap for every refutation. Whining about *this* only weakens your position, since it implies you can't actually argue against his position with merit, only complain about his presentation.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:19 PM
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It implies nothing of the sort. In order to respond to each comment I would have to hand type in all his comments, each and every time, and that is ridiculous and shouldn’t be necessary. It is a waste of time. Cut-and-paste the quote tag is an easy two click operation, as easy as alternate color. Fortunately, only a few members bypass the quote feature to use cute color text.

BTW, your whining about my explanation of the quote feature only shows you have nothing relevant to add to the thread.
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