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Old 12-16-2012, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GG42 View Post
The post I replied to said, that gas mask would not protect against chlorine and ammonia, and that is certainly not true. There are ALWAYS situations when something would not work, so what. The life preserver would not always save lives, neither would a firearm, and the japanese found out that if you build 8 ft wall there may be a tsunami with 11 ft waves.
Use a gas mask in a TIC/TIM environment and you will die. Even if the mask is rated for it, the concentrations can become too high for an air purifying mask to handle.

Traditional battlefield agents are used differently and have different compositions and densities.

The site you provided also says
Quote:
Approved for use with 54 various Scott respirator configurations & masks.
In other words, if your mask is not one of the approved masks, then it's not certified/approved.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:07 PM
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You realize how strange it sounds? Use a mask and "you will die" without any regard for actual conditions and concentrations? And if you don't have the mask you will be fine?
Old 12-16-2012, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GG42 View Post
You realize how strange it sounds? Use a mask and "you will die" without any regard for actual conditions and concentrations? And if you don't have the mask you will be fine?
Your above response makes it quite obvious you do not understand the differences between CBRN and TIC/TIM, the many different type of masks, their filtration systems and how the various chemicals interact with those masks.

I have been referring to conditions and concentrations all along.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:41 PM
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I have mentioned to you a real life event: one of the worst chlorine accident in nation's history and no one died without any masks. Because it is almost impossible today to get a lethal concentration of chlorine, unless you drink it. And even back in 1916, when Germans have used thousand gas cylinders and waited for a right wind to launch an attack, and the gas concentrated even more in the trenches, soldiers were using rags dipped in chemicals without a mask yet and were o.k. (with some damage to unprotected eyes), and, when that was not available, used rags saturated with urine (and survived). Reality does not seem to matter to you at all (urine, of course, wasn't certified). And the whole discussion started when you implied that without proper warning masks would be useless, which is as close to absurd as one is going to get.
Old 12-17-2012, 01:12 AM
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Sperian Survivair Opti-Fit Gas Mask, CBRN and a GOOD couple Tychem suits with booties and hood, Chem Gloves and Tape for Seams.
Old 12-17-2012, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GG42 View Post
I have mentioned to you a real life event: one of the worst chlorine accident in nation's history and no one died without any masks. Because it is almost impossible today to get a lethal concentration of chlorine, unless you drink it. And even back in 1916, when Germans have used thousand gas cylinders and waited for a right wind to launch an attack, and the gas concentrated even more in the trenches, soldiers were using rags dipped in chemicals without a mask yet and were o.k. (with some damage to unprotected eyes), and, when that was not available, used rags saturated with urine (and survived). Reality does not seem to matter to you at all (urine, of course, wasn't certified). And the whole discussion started when you implied that without proper warning masks would be useless, which is as close to absurd as one is going to get.
Help me out here: You mentioned something about the nation's worst chlorine spill and no one died? Where did that happen and when?

You say it's impossible to get a lethal concentration of chlorine unless you drink it? I think you should demonstrate that one for me.

Dude, I live in reality everyday. Perhaps the last 17 years working around CBRN and TIC/TIMs has made me unrealistic?

I never implied anything, just asked the question about when that person would know to put the mask on.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:25 PM
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I did not say "the worst", but one of the worst. The event took place in springfield, mass in the eighties. Not only no fatalities, but no serious injuries, The firefighters did not even have a proper PPEs other than what we discussing. And yes, it is very difficult to get a lethal dose in industrial accident. And we, as preppers, don't even care what happens inside the plant. Our discussion was about carrying the masks while driving, going to the mall, restaurant etc. And lack of sophisticated sensors though desirable is not essential for us, civilians. And THAT was the point of discussion. Everything else is irrelevant.
Old 12-17-2012, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GG42 View Post
I did not say "the worst", but one of the worst. The event took place in springfield, mass in the eighties. Not only no fatalities, but no serious injuries, The firefighters did not even have a proper PPEs other than what we discussing. And yes, it is very difficult to get a lethal dose in industrial accident. And we, as preppers, don't even care what happens inside the plant. Our discussion was about carrying the masks while driving, going to the mall, restaurant etc. And lack of sophisticated sensors though desirable is not essential for us, civilians. And THAT was the point of discussion. Everything else is irrelevant.
You can't be serious. You are giving out some bad info bub. Google deadly chlorine spills. Go back to my earlier post when I provided you the MSDS for chlorine.Read the parts about IDLH.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:52 AM
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As someone who spent 20+ years in a monkey suit dealing with truly hazardous
stuff, I know what works in given enviroments. If you want to kit yourself up and
wait for the end of the world, you had better order a tractor/trailer worth of masks
and filters. Prepare for reality. What's next, a radiation suit? Some people have a truly
retarded concept of reality and their own survivability.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toobboy View Post
As someone who spent 20+ years in a monkey suit dealing with truly hazardous
stuff, I know what works in given enviroments. If you want to kit yourself up and
wait for the end of the world, you had better order a tractor/trailer worth of masks
and filters. Prepare for reality. What's next, a radiation suit? Some people have a truly
retarded concept of reality and their own survivability.
This discussion isn't about buying trailer loads of equipment..It is about the proper equipment for certain disaster situations...You yourself said you "know what works in given enviroments"....I am sure with your 20+ years of experience that you can relay to the importance of proper equipment....Not too many people can afford all the equipment for every disaster....
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:45 AM
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Here is a good inexpensive solution: Scott M95 gas mask from Ebay ($120 incl shipping, brand new) plus Scott cartridge #045123 from Zorotools.com for $28, exp 2022. Or you can buy the same thing for $225 (incl 045123) incl shipping from Botachtactical.com and they will throw in P100 cartridge.
Old 12-19-2012, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toobboy View Post
As someone who spent 20+ years in a monkey suit dealing with truly hazardous
stuff, I know what works in given enviroments. If you want to kit yourself up and
wait for the end of the world, you had better order a tractor/trailer worth of masks
and filters. Prepare for reality. What's next, a radiation suit? Some people have a truly
retarded concept of reality and their own survivability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joes View Post
This discussion isn't about buying trailer loads of equipment..It is about the proper equipment for certain disaster situations...You yourself said you "know what works in given enviroments"....I am sure with your 20+ years of experience that you can relay to the importance of proper equipment....Not too many people can afford all the equipment for every disaster....
Joes, I think Toobboy was referring to the amount of suits, boots, gloves, filters and masks (among other things) that get used and contaminated during a CBRN incident. Decon equipment only works so far unfortunately.

I see your point about proper equipment though it does make sense.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:16 PM
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I haven't seen anybody mention it yet, get a mask with a side mounted canister, easier to handle your rifle . And gas masks are not appropriate for O2 deficient environments, basic stuff.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:47 PM
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Unless your in a full 'Bunny Suit' with Positive air, all basic gas masks and chem suits are designed to do is give you time to get away, do not linger with these things, they can buy you time to get away from an industrial accident or Terror Attack, but go as fast as possible away from the source, then take a 20 minute cold shower in and then out of the protection gear.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:09 PM
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If you're worried about chlorine spills, the best way to avoid exposure is to not live/work within a mile of a railroad:
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jan2...5-01-10-04.asp

No one's trucking railroad-car size loads of chlorine through suburbia.

Avoid areas of civil unrest and you probably won't have to worry about tear gas either.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:14 AM
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Does it really matter, if there is an attack we are all dead any way!
Old 01-02-2013, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelo23 View Post
Does it really matter, if there is an attack we are all dead any way!
That defeatist attitude alone will kill more people than would die if we tried to survive.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GG42 View Post
I have mentioned to you a real life event: one of the worst chlorine accident in nation's history and no one died without any masks. Because it is almost impossible today to get a lethal concentration of chlorine, unless you drink it. And even back in 1916, when Germans have used thousand gas cylinders and waited for a right wind to launch an attack, and the gas concentrated even more in the trenches, soldiers were using rags dipped in chemicals without a mask yet and were o.k. (with some damage to unprotected eyes), and, when that was not available, used rags saturated with urine (and survived). Reality does not seem to matter to you at all (urine, of course, wasn't certified). And the whole discussion started when you implied that without proper warning masks would be useless, which is as close to absurd as one is going to get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GG42 View Post
I did not say "the worst", but one of the worst. The event took place in springfield, mass in the eighties. Not only no fatalities, but no serious injuries, The firefighters did not even have a proper PPEs other than what we discussing. And yes, it is very difficult to get a lethal dose in industrial accident. And we, as preppers, don't even care what happens inside the plant. Our discussion was about carrying the masks while driving, going to the mall, restaurant etc. And lack of sophisticated sensors though desirable is not essential for us, civilians. And THAT was the point of discussion. Everything else is irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili View Post
You can't be serious.
unfortunately, I think he is serious...maybe he just doesn't understand the difference between chlorine gas and household bleach

for the record, a good whiff of chlorine gas will ruin your day

why was nobody killed in that springfield incident? because they evacuated the area...kinda hard to be killed by something that you're not exposed to!
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxMilitia View Post
spend less, learn more.
THIS^^^^^^^^^Listen to this!

Your question is kinda hard to answer...you have not stated WHAT you are trying to defend against...

A TRUE NBC kit takes way more prep than just a mask, and honestly way more than just the wearable gear. I have gas masks for smoke and some riot agents...that is pretty much it. Anything else will call for a decon unit and you gear will probably only be able to be used once...not worth it to me! I'd rather put the 5k that it would take to prep my family into a shelter filtration unit.
Old 02-07-2013, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAZMAT203 View Post
unfortunately, I think he is serious...maybe he just doesn't understand the difference between chlorine gas and household bleach

for the record, a good whiff of chlorine gas will ruin your day

why was nobody killed in that springfield incident? because they evacuated the area...kinda hard to be killed by something that you're not exposed to!
Yes, I do believe you are correct!
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