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Old 11-13-2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jimjc View Post
why are we in this situation....ronald reagan put into place supply side economics...this put all debt on a credit card and it`s been building fro 30+ years...

The rich need to pony up because they have been getting massive tax cuts....in the trillions...when we were running massive deficits..[ give the money back] large corporations that paid 65% of the federal taxes in the 70`s now pay 25% [ start paying what you paid]and of coarse wars "for the oil companies cost trillions"...and they want the poorest in the country to pay for all this...and now the republicans want all of us to pay for more tax cuts for the rich and large corps....what a load of -hit...
the budget needs cut!!
Old 11-13-2012, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BoycottTheDay View Post
How old are you, this country paid cash for the vietnam war or used debt?

Pardon me but you need to go to history class... the Vietnam was in the 60`s/70`s the war was many years before Reagan was president...
Old 11-13-2012, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 10 Bears View Post
the budget needs cut!!
No the people that created the debt need to pay it back the rich and the corps period!!!!!!
Old 11-13-2012, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by squirrel870 View Post
If you ask a lot of the people around here after Sandy, a collapse of the government already happened.
For the rest of the world, it's still there.

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Originally Posted by squirrel870 View Post
Aside from that, either instead of, or at least in addition to raising taxes, how about the over inflated government cut back on needless and ridiculous spending while creating accountability within government agencies?
Preaching to the choir buddy! But this requires the populace to be educated, which it isn't. This requires our leaders to act on MORAL bounds and not by retaining / adding more votes. Our society is so fixed on putting a label such as democrat or republican or liberal to things and then striking down the opposing team that we aren't gonna fix a damn thing. Baby steps? Hopefully.
Old 11-13-2012, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Altarboy View Post
Won't happen. We will always print more money and China and Co. will be glad to loan it to us. I guess we'll just sign over some of our national assets to them-like Yellowstone, Yosemite, GSM etc..
We only owe China 1.2 billion, same amount we owe Japan and lesser amounts to 30+ other countries. Im tired of hearing about we owe everything to China. Guess we can give the Grand Canyon and something else to the Japs
Old 11-13-2012, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 10 Bears View Post
the budget needs cut!!
I agree on cutting the budget, but that will not be enough and will not fix anything. If you look at the gov bills they collect 2.7b a month and the minimum bills per month are 3.2b. The minimum bills are SS,medicare, unemployment...That is not paying any gov worker and no military, no IRS, No FEMA, No gov..

So, they get money from other accounts to pay each other monthly bill then borrow for the rest.
Old 11-13-2012, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Altarboy View Post
Won't happen. We will always print more money and China and Co. will be glad to loan it to us. I guess we'll just sign over some of our national assets to them-like Yellowstone, Yosemite, GSM etc..
The day bulldozers are in yellowstone and the rest of our national parks is the day you will see more than a few pick up a rifle. Those lands are our heritage and treasure, to be enjoyed by the nation, not carved up for shopping malls.
Old 11-13-2012, 08:34 PM
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that could happen any time look it up US Gives China Eminent
Domain Over US Property. this was never told by the media was keep from the people of the US . When I first heard abou I thought BS .Them realy got into checking it out and was speachless and in shock from what I found out .
Old 11-13-2012, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jimjc View Post
No the people that created the debt need to pay it back the rich and the corps period!!!!!!
Jimjc, you sir, are an idiot. You could take all the wealth in America and apply it the debt and it wouldn't be paid off. Don't blame the rich or corporations. They are not the problem. The problem is the American people have found they can raid the treasury and get stuff. Freeloaders and those who want something for nothing or something they did not earn are the problem. America is currently made of makers and takers. You are either one or the other.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:50 AM
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Thats True for the most part but it started manny years ago.
Back when the Gov spent money like water remmber when they spent 50.00 for a 1/2 washer 25.000 for a Bathroom Stool money was spent foolishley.
And we dont hear about it as much today I would say it still goes on What we (meaning you and me) pay for the same thing the Gov dose they pay 4 or 5 times as much for.
Old 11-14-2012, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by APD4 View Post
While most of our debt is owned by china. The Bank(China) will eventually come take our house(America). Its inevitable.
You see here.

This is where people loose credibilty. People while China is our biggest foreign debt holder, they are not in any way, shape or form hoding most of our debt. In fact they only hold about 8% of our debt. The vast majority is owed to.....ourselves. The government has raided every trust fund they had the power to. The Evil Rich, HAHA. Not for long if the government defaults on the vast ammounts of bonds they hold.

Quit worring about China, and especially quit thinking they are going to continue to bank roll us. They arent. They have already started to reduce the ammount of our bonds they hold. They are just doing it quietly. They wouldnt want to start a stampeed and ruin the equity they can get out of the rest of thier holdings.


Jesus people do a little research every once and a while.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:39 PM
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"Anyone notice all the talk of a FISCAL CLIFF?"

Hard to miss it, it's been going on for years. Lots of talk, but NO ACTION.
Old 11-14-2012, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjc View Post
Why are we in this situation....Ronald Reagan put into place Supply Side Economics...This put all debt on a credit card and it`s been building fro 30+ years...

The rich need to pony up because they have been getting massive tax cuts....in the trillions...when we were running MASSIVE DEFICITS..[ GIVE THE MONEY BACK] large corporations that paid 65% of the federal taxes in the 70`s now pay 25% [ START PAYING WHAT YOU PAID]and of coarse wars "for the oil companies cost trillions"...and they want the poorest in the country to pay for all this...And now the Republicans want all of us to pay for more tax cuts for the rich and large Corps....what a load of -hit...
What the hell are you talking about. It's not supply side economics but more so failed Keynesian economics.

And PLEASE show me these trillions that taxing the rich at 65% will generate. This is nothing more than rhetoric that you will not... CAN NOT support.

Government has been growing at a staggering rate. Even during the Bush administration. That needs to STOP.

Look at it through a failing companies eye's. To rebuild, you need to trim the fat. Not saying fire the entire staff but get yourself efficient. And yes, some lose jobs but it's to save the company as a whole. cut 2 to save 20 or just closed the doors and cut the 22.

Once you have excess trimmed, you THEN can look at additional revenues. It doesn't make sense to try and generate revenues when those additional revenues still leave you in the red. You streamline first, then at some point you can add additional revenues.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:32 AM
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People are not very smart today and have the attention span of maybe 5 minutes so teh media uses buzz words to get people to listen so they can sway the masses one way or another. All media is a lie and used to control the masses, what was it just a few weeks a go all the Muslims around the World were going to rise up over some stupid video.....hmmm guess that got over that as we have heard nothing about it. They keep putting stories out so you can not focus on any one issue.
Old 11-15-2012, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Synical1 View Post
Since when is being fiscally responsible by both raising taxes and making budget cuts a bad thing?!?!?
Because doing both will jump-start another recession. If you lower the public's ability to consume AND increasing unemployment by reducing spending (meaning the government will have to buy less "stuff", i.e. infrastructure projects requiring American workers), you are essentially pushing the country's economy over a small "cliff".

When it comes to economics, things are rarely as simple as people like to pretend they are, and absolutely every decision has externalities. You can't just raise taxes and cut spending in one day and expect everything to be just fine right afterwards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjc View Post
No the people that created the debt need to pay it back the rich and the corps period!!!!!!
The rich and corporations had NOTHING to do with our debt crisis. Excessive government spending is what caused our debt. Much of that spending was in response to the 2008 crisis, which was caused by the government, the investment banks, the commercial banks, and the (ex) homeowners who bit off more than they could chew. Yes, the banks are incorporated, but blaming ALL rich people and ALL corporations on a crisis that was partially caused by some banks is incredibly ignorant.

The CORE of the problem is that the government encouraged banks to reduce loan barriers because the whole loan package scheme was great for our economy. Banks eventually lowered loan standards below the country's threshold of financial competency, which is when the system started to collapse. So blame the U.S. education system for requiring high schoolers to take team sports but failing to require them to take a financial literacy course. Maybe, if the average American had taken a financial literacy course in school, the loan acquisition ease-of-access would have been higher than the average American's ability to pay back those loans.
Old 11-15-2012, 11:28 AM
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why was there no fiscal cliff before the election?
Old 11-15-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjc View Post
No the people that created the debt need to pay it back the rich and the corps period!!!!!!
If the government taxed EVERYONE.....you me and every American at a 100% tax rate.. they took all of your money...100%

Rich,poor,and the dems favorite Middle class got a 0.00 paycheck because uncle sam took it all.

we could only run the government for 9 months

we are borrowing that much

we must cut all stupidity and stop all aid and stop taking chinas money

but you voted for Obama so what do you know anyway
Old 11-15-2012, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Baddogg5 View Post
why was there no fiscal cliff before the election?
Congress enacted an emergency plan in 2011 that would automatically reduce spending starting January 1, 2013 if a deal couldn't be reached on the budget by November 2011. Well, here we are, and the fact is that the emergency measure happens to go into effect the exact day that dozens of tax cuts from both the Bush years and the Obama years expire.

Letting all of this happen would be the optimum way to reduce our deficit but will kick-start a recession. Stopping all of this by extending the cuts and maintaining current spending levels would keep us in our current state of stability but would leave us in the same situation of a continuously-increasing deficit. The Dems and the Republicans need to find a find a fine line somewhere in the middle to meet, but anyone who hasn't lived under a rock for the last four years knows just how unlikely that is.
Old 11-15-2012, 09:10 PM
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From everything I've seen relating to the Cliff, it is just more political bs as the measures they are 'warning' us about have already been submitted to the House and so they are in fact supposedly so worried about measures which they themselves are trying to enforce.
Endgame is same as always: take from the poor and give to the rich and this type of hype and rhetoric will yield sheep who are willing to become submissive.
Old 11-15-2012, 10:45 PM
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I'll say it again. We're in so deep now that it will take spending cuts AND raising taxes (across the board). There's no other way out of this mess. Get ready to suffer. It's going to take sacrifice on EVERYONE'S part.
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