Is it starting?

[JKillinger02]

In the week since the election there have been a number of signs that seem to be pointing to a possible collapse.

1. The stock market is dropping. Not in record numbers but the day after the election we saw a 300 point drop in the Dow with only a few days of gains that ranged from 5 points to .5 points. Today it has already dropped another 100 points.

2. In the past week a large number of secession petitions from numerous states have appeared with pretty high signature rates. Could this cause the other countries around the world to lose faith in the American governments ability to control it's people? Idk considering that the US dollar is "trust" based it seems like that could cause the trust other countries have in the US to weaken.

3. It has been reported today that Isreal has used military surigical strike to kill a member of the Gaza leadership. More strife in the Middle East could be a huge issue and could cause serious world issues.

I've just started learning about all of this and am starting to prepare because it seems like the US cannot continue this financial course without sever consequences. Just wondering what everyone else thinks about these possible warning signs.

[Caneman]

yes, imo it has started

edit: although i think the "spark" is due to end of year selling of assets to avoid Pharoa Obama's looming tax increases

[Ohionative]

My toilet got plugged up last week after the election. This hasn't happened in years and it really has me concerned.

[brewmaster1918]

I don't know if it's starting, but I think we're in a recession and things are going to start getting a hell of a lot worse. There is so much stuff going on, I don't even know where to begin. One thing that people seem to have lost focus on is Europe. Europe is a major consumer. Just with them in a severe and deep recession, is enough to drag our economy down.

I don't think that this is the beginning of an all out collapse though. I think we are in the beginning of our next descent into becoming a 3rd world country. We never really got out of the last couple of recessions, and each recession brings a lowering of our standard of living and quality of life. I don't think we'll have the all out collapse until the government is fully prepared for it. I have no idea when that will be, or if they are already ready. That's tin foil hat stuff but is becoming closer to reality. I think the government will try to print their way out, so we'll see major inflation before the collapse. (I'm not an economist, I'm just as clueless as everybody else and I change my mind every 5 minutes though).

[FarmerJohn]

my recomendation is focus on the things that are within your sphere of control

focus on sustainability if the system should shut down

plan/plant a garden
get some chickens or other livestock
plant some fruit/nut trees
learn to can and preserve foods
learn how do identify wild edibles and other plants and there uses

things like this in addition to putting things in the rainy day fund

[BeaufortBound]

Originally Posted by Caneman

although i think the "spark" is due to end of year selling of assets to avoid Pharoa Obama's looming tax increases

+1 To this.

[spameggsbaconandspam]

The markets have appeared very very strange to me this week. Something doesn't feel right, as if there are large parties that are trying to eliminate volatility. EUR-USD has been mostly sideways all week, there have been some very odd blips on XAU and XAG. Reality started to sink in (perhaps) that someone had the heads up about the IAF missile targeting the Chief of Hamas' military. And of course Egypt has said they won't tolerate any more Israeli pressure on Hamas while Israel calls up its reservists. As of this afternoon, I'm wondering if these market oddities are caused by people in the know that are preparing for war. And then there is that Petraeus thing with talk of a possible coup. None of this seems right.

[AngryRed]

This is one of those difficult discussions. No one wants to try to predict anything anymore lest they be ridiculed like the post from Ohionative. Also there have been so many predictions of economic collapse that will for sure begin on March 30th at 8:01 AM, because my friend of a friend said so.

But guys, this is a survivalist forum. We should all have our ears to the ground so we aren't run down by the train. It's a double edged sword and we seem to be overly cautious these days due to so many false alarms.

That being said, I have had a terrible feeling since right before the election. That feeling hasn't gone away yet and it means nothing to anyone except me. The surge in PMs, the decrease of the stock markets, the political strife abroad, and the ever increasing polarity between the citizens of this country all seem to add up to a bad ending.

[ramelton]

I'm by no means a prophet and do not claim to know what the future holds but I'll chime in with my two cents worth. The muslim brotherhood has taken over in a lot of places that include Libya, Egypt, Tunisia and Turkey. They are behind the actions in Syria and Jordan. A quick glance at the map and you'll recognize that they are surrounding Israel with only a couple more countries to go. I think we'll be well into the U.S.'s collapse by the time we get to Jordan falling because Assad will have already been taken down by then. This will be a fulfillment of the scriptures and the U.S. is not identified in the prophecy. Which means it won't exist or will have been neutralized by then. I think the time is shorter than most people think...

[JKillinger02]

Correction earlier the Dow was down 82 points and as of this moment it's down 160 and literally dropping by the minute.

[LordOpie]

the decline started a decade ago and will continue a slow burn for 5-20 more years. when the decline becomes a collapse, it will take but a few hours and probably be completed by the times those on the west coast get to work.

[Varmit]

Yeah, it's coming, but I'd be hesitant to say that the current-current events
are a particularly alarming sign.

1. The stock market has seen far more serious sell-offs than this.
So far... it's been the savy investor who's been buying when everyone
else is selling. I guess at some point that will prove to be wrong, but
so far, history is on the side of buying low and selling high.

2. The secessionist petitions sure are interesting. But I think one original
has spawned a number of copy-cats, so its just the latest "in-thing".
Take a look on the government website where they're posted and you'll
find a huge assortment of petitions for all sorts of nonsense that have
gotten a lot of signatures. People will sign anything. My uniformed
opinion is that the secessionist thing won't gain any addititional traction,
and will be long forgotten a month from now.

3. The Middle East -- OMG You'll drive yourself crazy if you fire up
the alarm anytime something happens in the Middle East. They have been
beating/stabbing/slashing/shooting/killing/blowing each other up over there
since the dawn of history. Just standard operating procedure at this point.


We've been predicting "the end" for an awful long time. I can't imagine that
now is any worse than when we hunkered down in our back yard bunkers
during the Cold War, or stood in line wondering if there would be any more
gas for sale in the early 70's. Haley's Comet (sp?) in the 1880's? Just a
few examples of an almost endless list of end-of-the-world predictions.

Real concerns at the time? You betcha. But without a fool-proof crystal
ball, you'll just drive yourself paranoid.

FarmerJohn's post has got it by the tail -- Take care of your own.
Worry about what you can control and let the rest slide. Prep, but
prep without a specific focus. If you're planning on a particular event,
you're all the more likely to be blindsided by something unexpected.

Good discussion points though.

[ramelton]

Originally Posted by JKillinger02

Correction earlier the Dow was down 82 points and as of this moment it's down 160 and literally dropping by the minute.

I learned from earlier posts last year or the year before that the market is heavily manipulated. The better gauge of our current situation is the dollar index. If it goes below 72 then it will likely be a free fall / collapse because it won't be worth much anymore. Right now it is hovering around 80 to 81. Earlier last year it dropped down to the 72-73 range when QE2 was going on. My observation on the Dow number has been that it mysteriously goes up for no apparent reason after "bad news" comes out. When they can print money to buy the market, they can make it be what ever they want it to be. Try doing a search on previous posts where Franchise Kid talked about the dollar index.

[Jash]

Originally Posted by ramelton

I'm by no means a prophet and do not claim to know what the future holds but I'll chime in with my two cents worth. The muslim brotherhood has taken over in a lot of places that include Libya, Egypt, Tunisia and Turkey. They are behind the actions in Syria and Jordan. A quick glance at the map and you'll recognize that they are surrounding Israel with only a couple more countries to go. I think we'll be well into the U.S.'s collapse by the time we get to Jordan falling because Assad will have already been taken down by then. This will be a fulfillment of the scriptures and the U.S. is not identified in the prophecy. Which means it won't exist or will have been neutralized by then. I think the time is shorter than most people think...

I believe America will be paramount in the end times (from a biblical perspective). The US is morphing into a beast of yet unknown proportions. It still rules the world, and can single handedly destroy the whole human race with their nuclear arsenal.

What nation on Earth is better positioned to enforce the will of Vatican upon the world?

[AngryRed]

Originally Posted by ramelton

I learned from earlier posts last year or the year before that the market is heavily manipulated. The better gauge of our current situation is the dollar index. If it goes below 72 then it will likely be a free fall / collapse because it won't be worth much anymore. Right now it is hovering around 80 to 81. Earlier last year it dropped down to the 72-73 range when QE2 was going on. My observation on the Dow number has been that it mysteriously goes up for no apparent reason after "bad news" comes out. When they can print money to buy the market, they can make it be what ever they want it to be. Try doing a search on previous posts where Franchise Kid talked about the dollar index.

Good points but don't write off the DOW as a barometer of fear. Remember that the whole house of cards is built on confidence at the moment. Be that consumer confidence, investor confidence, or foreign country confidence in the dollar. It won't take much to start a panic and when it begins, it will spread like wildfire. The stock market may just be that match so it's good to keep an eye on it even if you don't have any skin in that particular game.

[Dobbs]

If I have keep track right it lost around 700 points sence Nov 7 thats7 days. See how long this keeps going.

[Sacajawea]

I don't think we'll have the all out collapse until the government is fully prepared for it.

I'm sorry - but this makes absolutely no sense to me. The Dow has dropped 200 points today; and things are popping up faster than I can keep track of 'em -- exactly what happened in '08. The gov't is lying through it's teeth on so many things... and in complete denial of reality... that the collapse will be biting their a$$es before they admit there might be a "concern".

Time for defensive and perhaps alternative investment strategies -- if you can find any.

[Dobbs]

Just read on MSN that the FEDs are getting ready for a nother program kind of an ext trist or EQ4 more or less at the end of the year .Sence opt trist ends on Dec 31 this new one will take over Jan 1 I hope things go for 10 or more years but just got the gut feeling SHTF by or not long after the first of the year.
2013 if we make it that far should be an interrsting year for us all.

[RedWoods]

Unlike some I like reading others predictions about possible future events. Some people are just better at in depth study and reasoning than others and anyone that ridicules them isn't much of a player to my thinking. Contrary to some opinions there are people that are right with enough percentages to be worth consideration.

I've spent large chunks of money buying advice on the stock market and it paid off very well. I've never had a problem with using any edge I can get by others ideas. I read the thoughts of even the gurus with finacial interest in selling me gold etc but value it accordingly.

Maybe those that don't like predictions should follow through by ignoring the posts and not disturbing others with negative comments.

Red

Originally Posted by AngryRed

This is one of those difficult discussions. No one wants to try to predict anything anymore lest they be ridiculed like the post from Ohionative. Also there have been so many predictions of economic collapse that will for sure begin on March 30th at 8:01 AM, because my friend of a friend said so.

But guys, this is a survivalist forum. We should all have our ears to the ground so we aren't run down by the train. It's a double edged sword and we seem to be overly cautious these days due to so many false alarms.

That being said, I have had a terrible feeling since right before the election. That feeling hasn't gone away yet and it means nothing to anyone except me. The surge in PMs, the decrease of the stock markets, the political strife abroad, and the ever increasing polarity between the citizens of this country all seem to add up to a bad ending.

[JKillinger02]

Here's something else to think about. Between 12.12.2012 and 12.21.2012 the hacktivist group anonymous is planning a massive leak on a scale never before seen, focused mainly on businesses and government corruption.

Now Regardless of your opinion on this group and if they are even half as capable as they think they are, wouldn't a massive leak of inside information specifically about the high ups preparing financially for a collapse and the government training the armed forces to take on "zombies" aka sheep, cause very serious effects on the trust system the US dollar is based on?

Don't get me wrong I don't necessarily believe these guys will even have acces to any information like this or be able to leak it. But IF THEY DID couldn't it potentially be the spark that lights the powder keg. For example a message between US officials stating that it was a fact we will default on our debt and how they will prepare. Wouldn't that kill all trust other countries have with US. Especially if it was between say Obama and Bernake?

Just thinking.