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Old 07-21-2012, 09:08 PM
strat1080 strat1080 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norsemon View Post
Forgive my ignorance, but that's why I'm here, to learn.

What is a "rimmed round?"
Basically the bottom of the case has a rim in which the diameter of it is wider than the case itself. The 30-30 is a rimmed round just like revolver rounds, such as the 38 spl, 357 Magnum, and 44 Magnum just to name a few.
Old 07-21-2012, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by strat1080 View Post
Like I said, if I was to only have one rifle the 308 would probably be my choice but given that the OP already has a 30-30 I would probably spring for a 30-06, 300 WSM, or 300 Win Mag. All the 308 does is add a little more range than the 30-30 but you're really in the same class of round. Pretty much medium game. Now bigger game can be done with the 308 but you're a little more limited than with something like a 30-06 or 300 Win Mag. The 30-06 really starts to outperform the 308 by a good margin with the heavier loads, which are more appropriate for Elk, Moose and the other North American big game animals. Take a 200 gr Partition or Accubond for example. A good reloader can easily get 2600-2650 fps out of that. The 308 just can't even compete with that. That 200 gr bullet has a super high BC of close to .600. Loaded to the same velocity that the 308 struggles to get with 180 gr bullet the 30-06 really begins to outclass the 308. The 30-06 is a legitimate big game cartridge.

I think the 308 is a fine all-around cartridge and would be very good for somebody that only wants to own one rifle. I think the 30-06 is a better addition to a multiple rifle battery. The 308 performance-wise doesn't do anything the 30-06 can't do. The advantage of a 308 rifle is a shorter action and lighter weight but if he already has a 30-30 I just don't see the point. I have the same exact combination of rifles. A 30-30 and a 30-06. The 30-30 is a light, handy carbine wtih a 20" barrel while my 30-06 is bigger and slightly heavier with a 24" barrel.

The thing I can't tolerate is people say that the 308 and 30-06 are the same round. Its not any more true than saying the 30-06 is the same as a 300 Win Mag. When loaded to their full potential the 30-06 is exactly halfway between the 308 and 300 Win Mag. Factory 30-06 ammo is closer to 308 power levels than 300 Win Mag but with a good, strong bolt action rifle the 30-06 can be loaded well in excess of factory loads. One of the few rifle cartridges that you can say that about. The 308 Win is loaded pretty stout from the factory and you aren't going to exceed those ballistics by that much if at all. I also like to have a little bit of room for error and don't like to rely on max loads. More often than not, the max load is not the most accurate. I like to back off max loads by 1-1.5 gr. With H4350 powder I can get 2900 fps from a 165 gr Accubond and still be WAY UNDER SAAMI max pressure specs. That's what I love about the 30-06. You don't have to load it to the max to get good results. However you can turn it into quite a thumper loaded to its full potential. 180 gr bullets at 2800-2850 fps and 200 gr bullets at 2600-2650 fps is easily achievable.

I do think that some people glorify the 308 into something that it isn't. Its been proven to be slightly more accurate than the 30-06 and 300 Win Mag but we're talking very small differences at extreme long range. In a hunting rifle, it really doesn't offer much in the way of accuracy improvement than the other common rifle cartridges. The main reason sniper rifles were developed for it is because it was a common military round, not because its some super-duper round. The truly extremely difficult long range shots are being taken with more powerful rounds that are better at longer ranges. There is nothing magical about the 308. For the average civilian I truly think the 30-06 is the better choice, especially for the reloader. You can load it to 308 ballistics and have wonderful case life due to the lower pressure. The 308 is a little more efficient and has slightly less recoil due to slighly less powder being used but its not a huge difference. I can think of other cartridges that would be a much better choice for somebody who can't handle the recoil of the 30-06.
Great post. Couldn't agree more. I have rifles in both cartridges. I like the .308 but I love the 30-06. I hand load and hunt with the -06. Both good ballistics but the 30-06 is just a better all around cartridge.
Old 07-22-2012, 09:22 AM
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The remington 710 can be had in both calibers and is a very decent gun for the price. I picked one up not long ago for around $300 with a 3x9 bushnell scope. The one I picked up is in 30-06. My next purchase will be a remington 700 sps tactical in 308. On that subject does anyone have any opinions about the 20" barrel length? I know a heavy barrel is a must I just can't decide on length.
Old 07-22-2012, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Free Agent View Post
Great post. Couldn't agree more. I have rifles in both cartridges. I like the .308 but I love the 30-06. I hand load and hunt with the -06. Both good ballistics but the 30-06 is just a better all around cartridge.
I think the 308 is good in a 20-22" barrel hunting rifle as an all-around choice. But if multiple rifles are in question I think something like a 30-06 or the newer 300 WSM are a much better addition to a 30-30 than the 308.

The 308 is a nice round, I've just never been that big of a fan. I don't think you need a .30 cal rifle round for deer sized game and the 308 is a little light for a true big game rifle. I think the 7mm-08 is a nice medium game cartridge that kicks significantly less than the 30-06 and 308. Nice flat trajectory and it uses the efficient and diverse 7mm bullet family. At 200 yards and beyond the 7mm-08 is matchin the 308 step for step despite starting off with less energy. I narrowed down my rifle batter to the 30-30 and 30-06 though. These two rifles cover all my rifle needs. My 336 30-30 is my primary SHTF firearm and it makes for a very nice rifle in dense timber and can be used for both deer and elk. My 30-06 sports a 24" barrel and can be used to take deer and elk out to about 400 yards. I think a 308 bolt action rifle wtih a 22" barrel would be a nice in-between option but I like to diversify my firearm options.
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:52 PM
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I don't know anybody that has a 308. Just about everybody has a 30-06. I guess this varies by what part of the country you live in.
Old 07-24-2012, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Star View Post
Total BS again the .308 is identical to the .30-06 with the exception of case length the .30-06 is identical to the 8mm Mauser cartridge with the exception of caliber.

Other variations of the 8mm Mauser Cartridge are the .270 .22-06 and .243. All of these can be formed from using the 8mm Mauser as a base and are considered part of the same "family" of cartridges. You absolutely, 100% positive of those cartridges?

You even got the information on the Springfield suit wrong (there was a separate one for cartridge design) Mauser won the suit against the M1903 design as the US was entering the war. NOTHING was paid to Mauser in DAMAGES until after the war. The suit was not over royalties as there was no royalty contract it was stolen patent rights they sued over.

The shape of the .308 is exactly the same as the .30-06 and barrel length is the determining factor on complete burning of propellant not a SHORTER cartridge which has little effect as the bullet is not in the cartridge long enough for the powder to completely burn the propellant needs the barrel for an efficient burn. Shorter barrels may not be long enough for a complete or efficient burn.
BS? BS!

Learn your history for JHC sake.

Royalties are part of what copyright is all about…Copyright infringement is not paying royalties due to a patent holder whether that be for actual design or manufacture violation or improper usage of intellectual content—like posting a picture, song, poem from someone else’s work without their knowledge or an excerpt from something without proper recognition…see also plagiarism.

Sorry me boyo, but the bullet suit was not for the .30/06 cartridge at all but for the spitzer bullet (U.S. patent 841861 issued on January 27, 1907) that rifles from other militaries were using as the case initially went to trial July 18, 1914 and it was against DMW Deutsche Waffen Munitionsfabriken not Mauser and was finally settled in 1928 with the USA paying them the $300K plus expenses.

Quote:
General William Crozier's (who became Chief of Ordance of the Army in 1901) position was saved by the sinking of the Lusitania in 1915 and the U.S. declaration of war on Germany in April 1917. Upon entry to the war, under authority of the Trading with the Enemy Act, the government created the Office of Alien Property Custodian to oversee the seizure of enemy-owned or enemy-controlled assets. To Crozier’s immense relief, the DWM patent was ruled to be U.S. property, and the attorney general dismissed the company’s suit out of hand.

Crozier retired in 1919 and escaped the censure for the fallout from a reinvigorated lawsuit launched by DWM in 1920 [two years after the WWI ended]. Having given up on obtaining a favorable patent-infringement judgement, DWM’s lawyers focused on whether the alien property custodian’s seizure of the patent had been lawful. Impressed by DWM’s argument that its bullet was protected by previous treaty, a tribunal ruled the U.S. government in violation and awarded DWM damages of $300,000.

Washington immediately appealed the decision, and the case lurched on interminably, for another seven and a half years, until it was finally settled on the last day of 1928, a generation after its beginning. The judgement stood. With interest added on the original $300,000, the United States owed a German company $412,520.55 [for the rights to the bullet they used against Germany in two World Wars].

Excerpts from from Alexander Ross' book "American Rifle" Roosevelt’s Rifle Chapter, Pages 271-278
The M1903 was an almost exact copy of the Waffenfabrik Mauser Werke (Oberndorf) GmbH rifle which Springfield was to pay royalties to them for the use of their patents which ceased when America entered the war in 1917 (see above)...The lawsuit was also started a couple of months prior to WW1 after Paul Mauser was told to ”eff off” for any additional royalties and was settled in the early 1920s with America having to pay all monies owed on Mauser patents up to 1918 excluding the originally covered items from the initial $200K paid...Part of the Versailles Treaty (28 June, 1919) included making the Mauser action usable by anyone it also made the Bayer (ASA) Aspirin patent monopoly available to everyone as well.

Quote:
The War Department had exhaustively studied and dissected several examples of the Spanish Mauser Model 93 rifle captured during the Spanish-American War, and applied some features of the U.S. Krag rifle to a bolt and magazine system derived from the Mauser Model 93, to produce the new U.S. Springfield Rifle, the Model 1903. Despite Springfield Armory's use of a two-piece firing pin and other slight design alterations, the 1903 was in fact a Mauser design, and after that company brought suit, the U.S. government was forced to pay royalties to Mauser Werke
Wiki M1903 Springfield excerpts
Excerpts from Mauser History:
Quote:
Therefore, instead of licensing the Mauser from Germany as the Flager regime had done with the Krag-Jorgensen, General Crozier had come close to duplicating it.
But the meeting was not over. Frazier stated that the Mauser people had also examined the new Springfield '03 rifle and found not one but five infringements. Mauser required a dollar royalty on each Springfield made.
Arthur Frazier then delivered more disturbing news to General Crozier. The American made Krag-Jorgensen rifle also infringed on Mauser patents. In other words, the United States had been infringing on German-held Mauser patents since 1892, when it first issued the Krag-Jorgensen to its troops. Frazier made a conciliatory offer…On March 27, 1905, Waffenfabrik Mauser accepted the offer. And the final agreement was ratified by the comptroller on April 5, 1905. The United States agreed to pay Waffenfabrik Mauser 75 cents for each Springfield rifle made. And 50 cents per thousand clips made. All royalty payments would cease after total payments reached U.S. $200,000.
Between November 6, 1905, when the Germans received a Treasury check for $11,367.53, and the July 1909 Treasury check for $8,117.25, the U.S. Armory made nine payments to Waffenfabrik Mauser for the specified total of $200,000.

7.92x57mm Mauser
Parent case M/88
Case type Rimless, bottleneck
Bullet diameter 8.08 mm / .318 (I and IR) and 8.20 / .323" (IS and IRS)
Neck diameter 9.08 mm (0.357 in)
Shoulder diameter 10.95 mm (0.431 in)
Base diameter 11.94 mm (0.470 in)
Rim diameter 11.95 mm (0.470 in)
Rim thickness 1.30 mm (0.051 in)

Case length 57.00 mm (2.244 in)
Overall length 82.00 mm (3.228 in)
Case capacity 4.09 cm³ (63 gr H2O)
Rifling twist 240 mm (1 in 9.45 in)
Primer type Large rifle
Maximum pressure

The 7.92×57mm Mauser cartridge is also known by the following designations:
7.92×57mm
7.92mm Mauser
7.92, 7.92mm, 7.92-mm
Cartridge SA, 7.92
7,9, 7,9mm[9]
8 × 57 IS
8 × 57 JS
8×57mm
8mm Mauser

Excerpts from The Ammo Guide
Quote:
Strum, Ruger and Steve Hornady released in late 2006, the .375 Ruger that duplicated .375 H&H Magnum ballistics in a standard .30-06 length action…A ”Rifle Magazine” article suggests that the .375 Ruger may be formed from 8x68S brass.
.30/06 Springfield
Parent case .30-03 Springfield
Case type Rimless, bottleneck
Bullet diameter .308 in (7.8 mm)
Neck diameter .340 in (8.6 mm)
Shoulder diameter .441 in (11.2 mm)
Base diameter .471 in (12.0 mm)
Rim diameter .473 in (12.0 mm)
Rim thickness .049 in (1.20 mm)

Case length 2.494 in (63.3 mm)
Overall length 3.34 in (85 mm)
Case capacity 68 gr H2O (4.42 cm³)
Rifling twist 1-10 in.
Primer type Large Rifle
Excerpts from various Wiki 7.92x57mm Mauser and .30/06 Springfield files.

Notice how they are so exact as to be identical twins—bullcrap! The only thing they have in common is that they are bottlenecked cartridges and fit standard (non magnum) actions…The major benefit of the .308 Win is that it can be shot in shorter, henceforth lighter, actions.

You’ll never get the velocities from a .308 to equal the .30/06 but the Ordnance Committee never strived for that…They just wanted something to approximate the velocity, energy of the .30/06 so the learning curve wouldn’t be that hard for soldiers to garner—a few clicks on the rear sight and you’re back at your POI.

Can you make something else from the casings, another cartridge maybe even in another calibre, sure, just as you can from any and every case out there…You can make them smaller and you can make them bigger.

The .243 is a renecked .308 case, the same as these .260 Rem (6.5/08 A Square), 7mm-08 Rem, .338 Federal and .358 Win are.

The .25/06 Rem, .270 Win and the .35 Whelan are the commercial renecked .30/06 case cartridges.

Excerpts from The Reload Bench
Quote:
The .308 Winchester has won more benchrest matches than any other cartridge above the 6mm calibre and continues to win more Hunter class benchrest matches than all other cartridges combined. The .308 is also one of our most popular big game cartridges, not only in the U.S. but in many other countries as well.

Realizing that any cartridge adopted by Uncle Sam was sure to become popular among civilian shooters, Winchester beat Remington to the punch by dressing the 7.62mm in civies and calling it .308 Winchester. It was a good move. The .308 went on to enjoy the popularity as a big game cartridge, not only in bolt action rifles but in pumps, single shots, autoloaders, and lever actions as well. Which pretty much sums up the primary reason for the .308's success. Its short overall length enables rifle manufacturers to offer it in any type of rifle.

Choosing the .308 instead of the .30-06 in a bolt action, slide action or autoloading rifle doesn't make sense simply because the shorter cartridge can never be made to equal the performance of the longer cartridge. But in a lever action rifle such as the Savage Model 99, the .308 is far superior to the .30-30 class of cartridges.
Excerpts from Mauser history.
Quote:
The Mauser rifle was accepted by the Prussian government on December 2, 1871, and was accepted for service until February 14, 1872, after a requested design change to the safety lock. The Mauser brothers received an order for 3,000 rifle sights, but actual production of the rifle was given to government arsenals and large firms. The sights were produced at the Xaver Jauch house starting May 1, 1872. After an order for 100,000 rifle sights was received from the Bavarian Rifle Factory at Amberg, the Mauser brothers began negotiations to purchase the Württemberg Royal Armory. A delay in the purchase forced them to buy real estate overlooking the Neckar River Valley, where the Upper Works was built that same year. A house in Oberndorf was also rented to fulfill the Bavarian order.
Acquisition of the Königlich Württembergische Gewehrfabrik
The Königlich Württembergische Gewehrfabrik was acquired on May 23, 1874, after an agreement between the Württemberg government and the Mausers to produce 100,000 Model 71 rifles. The partnership of Mauser Brothers and Company was formed between the Württemberg Vereinsbank of Stuttgart and Paul and Wilhelm Mauser on February 5, 1874. By May 23, 1874, the Mauser partnership had three factories in Oberndorf.
Wilhelm Mauser suffered from health problems throughout his life, which were aggravated by his frequent business travels. A combination of these led to his death on January 13, 1882. The partnership became a stock company with the name of Waffenfabrik Mauser on April 1, 1884. The shares held by the Württemberg Vereinsbank and Paul Mauser were sold to Ludwig Löwe & Company on December 28, 1887, and Paul Mauser stayed as the technical leader. Ludwig Löwe & Company was fifty per cent owner of Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre, a company formed in 1889 to manufacture Mauser rifles for the Belgian government. Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken A.G. (DWM) was formed on November 7, 1896, as a merger of Ludwig Löwe & Company A.G., Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik A.G., Rheinisch-Westfälischen Powder Company, and Rottweil-Hamburg Powder Company.[ Mauser A.G. was formed on April 23, 1897. After World War II, DWM was renamed Industrie-Werke Karlsruhe A.G. (IWK).
Old 07-27-2012, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekHer View Post
BS? BS!

Learn your history for JHC sake.

Royalties are part of what copyright is all about…Copyright infringement is not paying royalties due to a patent holder whether that be for actual design or manufacture violation or improper usage of intellectual content—like posting a picture, song, poem from someone else’s work without their knowledge or an excerpt from something without proper recognition…see also plagiarism.

Sorry me boyo, but the bullet suit was not for the .30/06 cartridge at all but for the spitzer bullet (U.S. patent 841861 issued on January 27, 1907) that rifles from other militaries were using as the case initially went to trial July 18, 1914 and it was against DMW Deutsche Waffen Munitionsfabriken not Mauser and was finally settled in 1928 with the USA paying them the $300K plus expenses.



The M1903 was an almost exact copy of the Waffenfabrik Mauser Werke (Oberndorf) GmbH rifle which Springfield was to pay royalties to them for the use of their patents which ceased when America entered the war in 1917 (see above)...The lawsuit was also started a couple of months prior to WW1 after Paul Mauser was told to ”eff off” for any additional royalties and was settled in the early 1920s with America having to pay all monies owed on Mauser patents up to 1918 excluding the originally covered items from the initial $200K paid...Part of the Versailles Treaty (28 June, 1919) included making the Mauser action usable by anyone it also made the Bayer (ASA) Aspirin patent monopoly available to everyone as well.



Excerpts from Mauser History:



7.92x57mm Mauser
Parent case M/88
Case type Rimless, bottleneck
Bullet diameter 8.08 mm / .318 (I and IR) and 8.20 / .323" (IS and IRS)
Neck diameter 9.08 mm (0.357 in)
Shoulder diameter 10.95 mm (0.431 in)
Base diameter 11.94 mm (0.470 in)
Rim diameter 11.95 mm (0.470 in)
Rim thickness 1.30 mm (0.051 in)

Case length 57.00 mm (2.244 in)
Overall length 82.00 mm (3.228 in)
Case capacity 4.09 cm³ (63 gr H2O)
Rifling twist 240 mm (1 in 9.45 in)
Primer type Large rifle
Maximum pressure

The 7.92×57mm Mauser cartridge is also known by the following designations:
7.92×57mm
7.92mm Mauser
7.92, 7.92mm, 7.92-mm
Cartridge SA, 7.92
7,9, 7,9mm[9]
8 × 57 IS
8 × 57 JS
8×57mm
8mm Mauser

Excerpts from The Ammo Guide
(quote]Strum, Ruger and Steve Hornady released in late 2006, the .375 Ruger that duplicated .375 H&H Magnum ballistics in a standard .30-06 length action…A ”Rifle Magazine” article suggests that the .375 Ruger may be formed from 8x68S brass.
.30/06 Springfield
Parent case .30-03 Springfield
Case type Rimless, bottleneck
Bullet diameter .308 in (7.8 mm)
Neck diameter .340 in (8.6 mm)
Shoulder diameter .441 in (11.2 mm)
Base diameter .471 in (12.0 mm)
Rim diameter .473 in (12.0 mm)
Rim thickness .049 in (1.20 mm)

Case length 2.494 in (63.3 mm)
Overall length 3.34 in (85 mm)
Case capacity 68 gr H2O (4.42 cm³)
Rifling twist 1-10 in.
Primer type Large Rifle
Excerpts from various Wiki 7.92x57mm Mauser and .30/06 Springfield files.

Notice how they are so exact as to be identical twins—bullcrap! The only thing they have in common is that they are bottlenecked cartridges and fit standard (non magnum) actions…The major benefit of the .308 Win is that it can be shot in shorter, henceforth lighter, actions.

You’ll never get the velocities from a .308 to equal the .30/06 but the Ordnance Committee never strived for that…They just wanted something to approximate the velocity, energy of the .30/06 so the learning curve wouldn’t be that hard for soldiers to garner—a few clicks on the rear sight and you’re back at your POI.

Can you make something else from the casings, another cartridge maybe even in another calibre, sure, just as you can from any and every case out there…You can make them smaller and you can make them bigger.

The .243 is a renecked .308 case, the same as these .260 Rem (6.5/08 A Square), 7mm-08 Rem, .338 Federal and .358 Win are.

The .25/06 Rem, .270 Win and the .35 Whelan are the commercial renecked .30/06 case cartridges.

Excerpts from The Reload Bench


Excerpts from Mauser history.[/QUOTE]

You can form .30-06 Brass from an 8mm Mauser Cartridge the differences in tolerances are so minimal it was likely the conversion from metric to the inch system.

The 8mm Mauser is essentially the case they formed the .30.03 and from that the .30-06 crartidges from the .308 is derived from the .30-06 by merely shortening the case.

Only a conceited fool would state otherwise given the facts.
Old 07-28-2012, 03:01 PM
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Just because you can squeeze a bigger or smaller case shape, shoulder, neck from another calibre all you’ve accomplished is made a wildcat calibre like my favourite .219 Zipper from .38/55 WCF brass or for that fact, necking a .30/06 case to handle .411 bullets to be shot out of a Winchester M1895 lever gun as in the .411 Z-Hat Hawk.

No, the 7.92x57mm Mauser isn’t the parent cartridge for the .30/06 Springfield and all that they have in common in a .473” case rim size.
To quote Chuck Hawke ”These German cartridges established most of the critical parameters for the standard rimless cartridges that followed, including the basic rim diameter used for the .30-06 and .308 Winchester cartridge families and the majority of other subsequent (non-magnum) centerfire rifle cartridges”

The 8mm Lebel (based on the earlier 11mm Gras necked down to accept .323" bullets) marks the beginning of the period of the small bore military cartridges designed for use with smokeless powder. It was the first of the breed, introduced in 1886 is actually the grandparent of them all.

The parent cartridge on which the 7.92×57mm Mauser was based was adopted by Germany in 1888 as the Patrone 88 (cartridge 88) or M/88 (along with the Gewehr 1888 service rifle. The M/88 cartridge was loaded with a relatively heavy 14.6 grams (225 gr) round-nosed ball cartridge with a diameter of 8.08 mm (0.318 in) and was designed by the German Gewehr-Prüfungskommission (G.P.K.) (Rifle Testing Commission)

Again to quote Chuck Hawke ” The U.S. Army's .30-06 cartridge is actually an enlarged 7x57 and shares the 7x57's .473" rim diameter and basic design. Actually, the 7x57 appears to be the more modern cartridge due its sharper 20 degree 45 minute shoulder angle whereas the .30-06 uses a 17 degree 30 minute shoulder.
This rimless case with its .473" diameter rim and 2.240" long case turns out to have just about the optimum capacity for bullet diameters ranging from 6mm (.24 caliber) to about 9mm (.35 caliber). In all of these calibers this family of cartridges kills appropriate size game cleanly and without fuss. Naturally, a cartridge as popular and long lived as the 8x57 has spawned a number of successful offspring.”


The true parent case for the .30/06 was the .30/03.
”The .30-'03 was also the first American military cartridge to use smokeless powder. The .30-'03 Springfield was also called the .30-45, since it used a 45 grain (2.9 g) powder charge, dating its self back to its old black powder roots…The '03 was originally designed to use a 220 gr (14.3 g) round nose bullet. Also the cartridge was designed as a black powder cartridge, having a long neck which was the standard practice at the time. The Springfield Armory shortened the neck by 0.1 in (2.54 mm) and loaded the case with a 150 gr (9.7) spitzer type bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2700 ft/s (823 m/s)...Since the new .30-06 was shorter than the .30-03, it could fire in 1903 rifle, but with poor accuracy. The .270 Winchester cartridge was based on reducing the neck diameter of a .30-03 cartridge case to retain a similar bullet-holding length with the same shoulder.”

From these following Rifleman’s Journal articles:
Sibling Rivalry: .308 vs. .30-06
History: .30-80 WCF - The Origin of the .308 Winchester
Cartridges: A Short History of the .30-06 Hatcher's Notebook, by Julian S. Hatcher
Old 07-29-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry View Post
I don't think that one will be able to achieve anything that the other couldn't.

Then my decision would be based on ammo availability. With the .308 being a NATO round there is more surplus available. Although .308 aint exactly cheap.
First post nailed it.
Although I'll add what your area range seems to favor would play a part. By me 30 ought 06 is shot about 5 to 1 over .308. I find alot of brass for that caliber.


If I were to set up a long range rifle it would be a 300 win mag if I were doing it on the cheap. Perhaps a 30 ought 06 if I was looking to scoop up brass at the range to save money.

A .308 I think I'd rather have in an AR10 with a really good optic. Acog or an aimpoint (this is "If I had the money to have some fun money) *by no means a real long range rifle, but that's what personally I'd use a .308 for, in an AR.)

The farthest range near me is 600 yards. First step is the property to have my own in the kettle that I could have that sort of range or double at.

At that point I'd be looking to a .50 bmg or a .338 lapua. Which is big money to do right.

Just my take on it. I'll probably start with reloading 30 ought 06 myself. I know I can scoop up the brass to be able to economically afford to train at those ranges more. If you have .308 brass more abundant then do that.

Either way, 5 dollar cartridges don't much lend themselves to the learning curve. ;))) start a bit cheaper. I think if I really took mile long shots seriously, I'd be in that expensive catagory.
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