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Firearms General Discussion Rifles, pistols, shotguns, scopes, grips and everything in between.

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Old 04-11-2012, 08:39 AM
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Default SHTF Firearm choices: .22LR vs 2nd 9mm



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Hello Forum,

I am trying to pick up my basic SHTF firearms, and could use some advice, since it's free and there is a bunch going on in this forum I hope it's not a bother.

I currently have the Ruger SR9c ordered, in black with the extended clip to have the same capacity and make it relatively the same size as the SR9, which I will carry as my daily with the smaller clip. My question is, since I am on limited funds, what should I get for a mixed urban rural landscape (read small city/town). I prefer to retreat and avoid confrontation, moving with stealth rather than with flair, and will have at least two other people, a child and myself. We are working on a BOL, but don't have one set yet, and are comfortable in the woods. While the wilderness is the destination it could take us a day or two on foot to get there.

So, should my next purchase be a second SR9c, which the wife can use and provide a backup we are both comfortable with. This helps focus ammunition type, increase the practice experience, and reduces the number of spare parts I would have to purchase.

Or, should I pick up the Ruger 10/22 Carbine as a .22lr, which can be used for longer range shots and small game hunting? This will provide a diversity of weapons, more excuses to practice hunting in the woods, is very mod friendly, and can act as less intimidating weapon for new shooters.

Your thoughts and advice are appreciated.
Old 04-11-2012, 09:52 AM
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The answer is both the .22 and the 9mm (or other) centerfire handgun.

Start with providing defensive weapons for you and your wife, the second 9mm (not spare), the SR9C will do nicely.

After that a good .22 rifle is never a bad choice, providing cheap practice and potentially food in it's most scroungeable forms. And for the price of a 10/22, you're gonna be hard pressed to find any .22 rifle of comparable quality or reliability outside the used rack of your local dealer.

However lets not forget the SR22 for another handgun choice later, it shares some handling characteristics with the other SR series and provides cheap handgun practice for the novices and keeping yourself in practice. Personally I'd recommend a good used Ruger MkI or MkII, they're cheap and last forever and cost just over half what the SR22 retails for.

Realistically, spare parts are all well and good, however a true spare handgun is a much better option. If anything happens to your primary handgun, it becomes the spare parts for your spare, aka the new primary handgun.

Identify what you need and prioritize and purchase in that order.
Defensive handguns, working guns, toys. Ammo for each as you can afford it and in the same order.

Remember that two is one, three is two, etc. Pick up the SR9C, then the .22, then X as you can afford it. When you can afford the expense, after other important purchases have been made, pick up another SR9 to put back as a spare for the two of you or for your child when he/she is old enough.

Ideally, every adult should have at least a defensive handgun and a longgun of some sort. Children should eventually have their own guns but that depends on the 'maturity' of the kid and the area you're in and the situation.

Good luck, I sympathize with you.
Having made serious changes to my collection to accommodate three kids and a wife that can't handle my 'cannon's', I can understand starting the collection over and trying to make good and effective choices to make it work for everyone involved.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:53 AM
Fenrell Fenrell is offline
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I would strongly recommend going with the Ruger 10/22. You should try to expand the different capabilities of your weapons before doubling up on one in my opinion, and it is somewhat less expensive. You can use the difference in cost to load up with ammunition pretty effectively.

Edit: As an alternative, you might also consider a shotgun in the same price range.
Old 04-11-2012, 10:30 AM
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If i were you and were going to get another 9mm, I would get a full sized one.

A .22 would be nice for obtaining food though, and give you the option of lethality at more distance

I like the post above about considering a 12ga though.


If the choice was mine to make, i'd get a full sized pistol for the time being, then start looking at shotguns
Old 04-11-2012, 11:02 AM
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Its a tough choice. Eventually both. I think .22 first, then second .22. A shotgun needs to be somewhere in the mix.

Just go into debt and buy them all.

T
Old 04-11-2012, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
So, should my next purchase be a second SR9c, which the wife can use and provide a backup we are both comfortable with. This helps focus ammunition type, increase the practice experience, and reduces the number of spare parts I would have to purchase.
that would be my third buy, second would be a shotgun fourth a 10/22
Old 04-11-2012, 12:02 PM
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Ruger availability being as limited as it is right now, and with ammo prices on the way up, I think I'd get another 9mm and maybe more ammo now. The 10/22 is so commonplace that you shouldn't have trouble finding one a few months from now, and even if ammo prices skyrocket, .22LR will still be inexpensive.
Old 04-11-2012, 12:21 PM
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Get the 22 for small game hunting, Rugers are nice, but the older ones are what you want to look for. The new models have to much plastic in them.
Old 04-11-2012, 01:24 PM
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.22lr and 9mm are my short term plans as well. It sounds like you and I have similar situations. Small town, forested mountains a day or so walk away, would be traveling with a small family group (2 adults, 2 kids for me), priority would be to avoid confrontation if at all possible. Personally, I rank something like a 10/22 as a higher importance than a 9mm hand gun, especially since you already have one. You listed small game hunting as a possibility, I certainly would rather have a 10/22 than a 9mm pistol for that.

If I read your post right, you will have a total of 3 adults and 1 kid. Assuming the child is old enough, I'd plan for 3 .22lr rifles (or 2 if the child is too young), 1 9mm carbine, 1 .22lr pistol, and 2 9mm pistols. Start with the .22s.

I threw the 9mm carbine in because you will already be packing 9mm ammo and will already have a couple .22 rifles. The carbine would give you the option of a bit more power for defense or larger game. A 12G may also be a good option with 3 adults, but personally I'd be put off by the idea of trying to pack a useful amount of ammo.
Old 04-11-2012, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic_always View Post
Personally, I rank something like a 10/22 as a higher importance than a 9mm hand gun, especially since you already have one. You listed small game hunting as a possibility, I certainly would rather have a 10/22 than a 9mm pistol for that.
I agree with this completely. If you don't have a .22lr at all; get one now!

The ammo is lightweight, inexpensive, and readily available. Also don't forget the 25 round magazines:
http://www.ruger.com/news/2011-04-29b.html
Old 04-11-2012, 07:56 PM
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Just picked up a ruger 10/22 sporter, I'm still waiting for my 25 rd mags. I'll be looking for a revolver next, probably a ruger gp 100.
Old 04-11-2012, 08:23 PM
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I think the 10/22 is a good choice also. I have both the 9 and 10/22. I would pick up a shotgun and let the wife hang onto the 22.
Old 04-11-2012, 09:47 PM
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Let me just toss out an alternative to a 10/22 (that will probably be ignored). U22 Neos + carbine kit. More expensive, but for under $500 you get a .22lr pistol (ie for your wife to carry) and a very light stock/barrel to pack for when you need a long gun. Accuracy, reliability, share mags between .22lr pistol and rifle..
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic_always View Post
Let me just toss out an alternative to a 10/22 (that will probably be ignored). U22 Neos + carbine kit. More expensive, but for under $500 you get a .22lr pistol (ie for your wife to carry) and a very light stock/barrel to pack for when you need a long gun. Accuracy, reliability, share mags between .22lr pistol and rifle..
I've never handled the U22 beretta before but I just checked out a few reviews and they look nice. I think that I'll wait for the ruger take down to become a little more common then pick one up for the sake of parts commonality. I've ordered 5 of the factory 25round magazines. I like at least 2 of everything.
Old 04-12-2012, 02:31 PM
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Take the time to plot out your entire survival battery, then figure out what the next best acquisition will be. I appreciate the value of the 9mm and .22s, but you need more serious long arms for defense and hunting. Figure out what those might be, and where they fit priority-wise in your overall survival plans.

I absolutely understand training issues, but if the SHTF tomorrow, there will be a lot more willingness to learn ASAP. I second the call for a shotgun, very versatile, simple weapon that represents maybe the biggest bang for the survival buck.

Last edited by arizonafusilier; 04-12-2012 at 02:33 PM.. Reason: Spell hunting
Old 04-13-2012, 06:22 AM
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If I were you I would purchase my next firearms in this order,

1) Shotgun: Takes large game, small game, or flying game just by using different loads. Very good for defensive use at close range.

2) 22LR Rifle: Takes small game and is reasonably quiet. Can be used for defense in a pinch.

3) Center fire rifle: Good for larger game and defense.

4) Other handguns: Only really good for defense. You can take game with them but it is much harder.
Old 04-13-2012, 07:15 AM
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Thanks everyone,

I keep seeing the suggestion for a Shotgun, but I have also read on this forum that Shotguns are not the best choice due to the size and weight of the ammo that must be carried. This is one of the reasons I went the .22lr /9mm route, I can carry much more ammo, and with the improvements in design and power both types can pack a good punch for the value of weight/cost/size.

I am not against a shotgun, in fact I would like to get one if I ever get my BOL worked out, store it there or at my home if close enough to my BOL or I get reliable transportation. The weight is a concern for me, as my wife will be carrying our little one and some supplies, and I don't want to slow us down more than necessary.

Any thoughts? Also, I plan to get some ammo cans and valuables and ammo in them, any idea how much .22lr and 9mm ammo would be a good idea for a small family moving quickly? Even if we get a BOL it would be a day or two walk away, or a few hours drive, and I prefer to plan for the first option and get pleasantly surprised by the second if available.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
but I have also read on this forum that Shotguns are not the best choice due to the size and weight of the ammo that must be carried.

A fallacy, if you can’t tote 25 rounds of 12 gauge either bug in or hit the gym. The .22lr as a do all survival gun is fantasy it has its place but that’s limited IMHO .
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:16 AM
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I hear what you are saying, but I am not trying to use it as a "do all survival gun", in fact I would use it what it was intended for. I can use it for small game hunting, and defense at a longer range than the 9mm, though with less penetration. Since I live in a small city I really don't have need to shoot people over 150 yards, and when I get to a wilderness area I really only need to do some small game hunting.

On the other subject, why only carry 25 rounds of a 12 gauge when I can carry 100/200 rounds of a .22lr? One type gives me 25 shots, even if all are successful in hitting my target, I only have 25 chances. With the .22lr I would have easily 4 times that much in shots, granted at less impact force, but if I need to be shooting at a two legged predator I plan to use 9mm p+ hollow tip.
Old 04-13-2012, 10:16 AM
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Where a shotgun shines is in hunting flying or running small game. It is pretty dangerous (and futile) to shoot at a pheasant or duck in flight with a .22 for example. Your chances of bagging that game is very much higher with a shotgun, unless you manage to catch one stationary long enough to use the .22. If weight is a serious concern, smaller shotguns (.410, 20 gauge) may get the job done too and you would be able to carry more ammunition.

If you can manage to set up a suitable BOL ahead of time, weight for ammunition becomes a much less critical concern because you can stockpile ahead. I would recommend your first order of business should be figuring out where you would bug out to, make the arrangements necessary to "reserve" that BOL, and then plan according to the conditions between where you are and where the BOL is. Stock it accordingly within the means of your financial situation.

I don't think hunting is going to be high on your priority list while you are actively bugging out. Your carried gear should reflect the need for as much speed (and stealth) as you can manage. Your gear stored at the BOL needs to be what you depend on longer term to survive (and that is where I see any hunting actually taking place). I see your pistol(s) as carried gear during bugout, while any .22, shotgun, or larger hunting rifle with their ammunition would probably best be stored gear already at the BOL.
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