Trade in North America post SHTF

[SheepishLion]

My area: Produce, Corn, Beef, Milk, Cheese, Wine.
Myself: Beer, Booze, Wine, some Veggies, Blacksmithing/Metallurgy.

Needs:
Salt, glass (maybe?), textiles. Can't think of much else that we couldn't scrounge up.

[Roaver]

I recently figured out blacksmithing.

All it took was a couple cinder blocks, a concrete tile to put them on, a small fan, and an old railroad spike for an anvil.

Forged a knife from an old file.

I figure I can do some forging on pieces of scrap from cars and make a product worth more than gold.

[irishmike357]

Originally Posted by SheepishLion

My area: Produce, Corn, Beef, Milk, Cheese, Wine.
Myself: Beer, Booze, Wine, some Veggies, Blacksmithing/Metallurgy.

Needs:
Salt, glass (maybe?), textiles. Can't think of much else that we couldn't scrounge up.

Yeah I figure salt will be a big one. Only way I could get it is from the ocean, which is nice because the by product is then fresh water Other than that I guess you would be digging for it.

[irishmike357]

Originally Posted by Roaver

I recently figured out blacksmithing.

All it took was a couple cinder blocks, a concrete tile to put them on, a small fan, and an old railroad spike for an anvil.

Forged a knife from an old file.

I figure I can do some forging on pieces of scrap from cars and make a product worth more than gold.

I was thinking that too. Probably be a lot of recycled metal products. Make a couple shovels out of old car hoods ect. I want to take up blacksmithing, an old timer at my old job was teaching me some stuff but then he retired. He left me an old railroad track (about 2-3') to use.

[Roaver]

Originally Posted by irishmike357

I was thinking that too. Probably be a lot of recycled metal products. Make a couple shovels out of old car hoods ect. I want to take up blacksmithing, an old timer at my old job was teaching me some stuff but then he retired. He left me an old railroad track (about 2-3') to use.

I was taken quite aback at how simple it was. The hardest part was procuring the charcoal. Store bought crap doesn't cut it. I'll post in the blades forum when I get pictures. I'm 15 years old, so you can probably do it better than I can.

[SheepishLion]

As far as blacksmithing goes, never used charcoal briquets, never use galvanized metals, and NEVER assume that since the metal's black it must be cold enough to touch.

I learned that last one the hard way.

[Pittmania]

Central Arkansas...hot water springs.

[Roaver]

Originally Posted by SheepishLion

As far as blacksmithing goes, never used charcoal briquets, never use galvanized metals, and NEVER assume that since the metal's black it must be cold enough to touch.

I learned that last one the hard way.

As did I. A few flakes of glowing metal flying off of the thing down my shirt were quite educative as well.

[irishmike357]

Originally Posted by Roaver

I was taken quite aback at how simple it was. The hardest part was procuring the charcoal. Store bought crap doesn't cut it. I'll post in the blades forum when I get pictures. I'm 15 years old, so you can probably do it better than I can.

I think once I move I might give it a go, not enough space where I am now. You have done it so I will give you the edge, no matter your age, can't wait to see what you created. There was a site I had saved that gave all sorts of instructions for blacksmithing, I will see if I can find it.

Originally Posted by SheepishLion

As far as blacksmithing goes, never used charcoal briquets, never use galvanized metals, and NEVER assume that since the metal's black it must be cold enough to touch.

I learned that last one the hard way.

Haha sounds like the lesson I learned first time welding. It's not glowing, it must be cool....NOPE.

[irishmike357]

Got it. Here is the site I was talking about. http://www.anvilfire.com/

TONS of good blacksmith info there. Check out the i-forge for instructions on how to make stuff.

[cleatis]

Well with the amount of people we have in this nation, any natural resource would run out quick. With no government you have no law. Wild game would be the first thing to go.

[Kid at Heart]

If a situation developed and we were denied the ready supply of fuels we are accustomed to, I think we could do okay reverting to 1950's fuel consumption rates. Worse, would be WWII fuel consumption and rationing rates. But survivable. This would cause a national and posssibly global financial meltdown.

The worse case scenario is a total loss of energy supplies of all kinds (EMP). We can not survive going back to an 1850 lifestyle. We don't have an infrastructure to support that - 10,000,000 draft horses and 1,000,000 wagons and horse drawn equipment for farming. We don't even have the hand tools that would be needed for a peasant lifestyle. Due to a lack of infrastructure, this would be the major die-off.

[irishmike357]

Originally Posted by Kid at Heart

If a situation developed and we were denied the ready supply of fuels we are accustomed to, I think we could do okay reverting to 1950's fuel consumption rates. Worse, would be WWII fuel consumption and rationing rates. But survivable. This would cause a national and posssibly global financial meltdown.

The worse case scenario is a total loss of energy supplies of all kinds (EMP). We can not survive going back to an 1850 lifestyle. We don't have an infrastructure to support that - 10,000,000 draft horses and 1,000,000 wagons and horse drawn equipment for farming. We don't even have the hand tools that would be needed for a peasant lifestyle. Due to a lack of infrastructure, this would be the major die-off.

I am no EMP expert by far, but wouldn't tractors still work? I agree if the power grid went down it would be horrible, but many would survive. The cities would be worst off.

[OldArcher]

Originally Posted by irishmike357

Let's just say there is a total governmental collapse and we are sent back to the 1800's. No more large manufacturers ect providing our goods. I believe trade would be a major influence on the world/country.

Now forget all the stuff you are storing for barter later on, I want to think about what you can provide after that stuff runs out. Sort of like the native Americans back in the day. My questions are what can your area provide? What would your area need? And what could you personally provide?



Some things to think about are

Spices
Oil (vegetable, olive)
Lead
Gold
Copper
Silver
Iron
Clothing
Salt
Animal Hides
Meat
Fish
Eggs
Livestock
Horses
Working animals (Ox, dogs, donkey ect)
Blades


Here is a map I found to kind of illustrate what I mean.

I'd go look for farm museums, the Amish and like minded peoples to establish trade, recruit herbalists, chemists, tradesmen, engineers, and health care professionals.

Establish "Intentional Communities" for mutual defense and self sufficiency... Provide armed personnel for protection of wagon trains. Read Louis L'Amour's The Walking Drum, as an example... Establish a more uniform basis for barter, with PMs as the beginning bedrock...

Establish guides/scouts, to seek out trade, and provide usable intelligence, vis-a-vis potential partners or enemies...

Lots of things that would be vital to survival need to be considered...

Read S.M. Stirling's "After the Change" novels... Most illustrative, especially going from industrial/technological to agrarian... One helluva step backward or downward...

OA, out...

[funfun]

If things do collapse, more survival and less trade will be the order of the day for quite sometime i should think. It is possible trading may not come for years, or ever again.

[irishmike357]

Originally Posted by OldArcher

I'd go look for farm museums, the Amish and like minded peoples to establish trade, recruit herbalists, chemists, tradesmen, engineers, and health care professionals.

Establish "Intentional Communities" for mutual defense and self sufficiency... Provide armed personnel for protection of wagon trains. Read Louis L'Amour's The Walking Drum, as an example... Establish a more uniform basis for barter, with PMs as the beginning bedrock...

Establish guides/scouts, to seek out trade, and provide usable intelligence, vis-a-vis potential partners or enemies...

Lots of things that would be vital to survival need to be considered...

Read S.M. Stirling's "After the Change" novels... Most illustrative, especially going from industrial/technological to agrarian... One helluva step backward or downward...

OA, out...

I agree with it all. Thank you for the book recommendations, I will check them out right now.

[REM]

I agree with Zulu Cowboy that seeds would be very vital and valuable. It's been fairly hard getting some seed this year due to crop failure from last year's drought. Can anyone really imagine life post SHTF without seed being available?

I saw a couple of salt posts. It's dirt cheap right now and as I understand it it has infinite shelf life. Stocking up now seems a prudent thing to do. It's just a tad under .12 CENTS a pound by the 50 pound block here, or $5.99. Dirt cheap!

If I'm not overrun I can produce vegetables and seed. The likelihood of making it a full growing season unmolested seems a bit low.

The same with cattle, horses, goats, poultry and other farm ruminants. The grass is there. It's just a matter of security.

[HillSavage72]

Add: Booze, cigarettes, batteries, matches/bic lighters, blankets.

[irishmike357]

Originally Posted by HillSavage72

Add: Booze, cigarettes, batteries, matches/bic lighters, blankets.

I don't really mean things you would store up, I mean things you could/would produce. Booze and tobacco for sure, blankets too.

[Hazeleyes]

My area
Corn
Soy bean
Wood
Water/lake about then 3 miles away
Beef
Goat
......
My property
Wood
Water
veggies
Berries
Fruit
Herbs
Rabbit/meat/fur/fertalizer
Chickens/meat/eggs/fertalizer
Muscovies/meat/eggs/fertalizer
Deer
Wild Turkey
soon
Cotten Patch Geese/meat/eggs/down/fertalizer
Dairy Sheep/wool/milk/meat/skins