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Old 02-10-2011, 04:09 PM
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I would try these guys. When I was looking for non-narcotic pain relievers, they had the best prices I could find. They seem to have most of what you guys are looking for and in "human" form for those that are concerned. I have no affiliation with them.

http://www.medsfirst.com/antibiotics.html
Old 02-10-2011, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaciRich View Post
I have sort of a fundamental problem with this lady's suggestions. Not that they're all bad, but two of them are based on Dr prescription drugs, though. I have yet to see a vet supply with Zithromax or Cipro in stock. Both of those are very expensive, and she talks specifically about generics, which leads me to believe she expects to be getting them from docs. Which isn't easy if you're just waiting for a chance to need them to get them.

The basics of her video is great, though! I'll be ordering my fish antibiotics very soon.

This guy I know buys non-vet antibiotics from pharmacyescrow.com and has done so 3 different times with no problems at all. He has purchased Suprax and azithromycin in substantial quantities. He also uses pharmacyescrow.com to supplement the fish meds he buys on Amazon.com. He has quite an assortment of meds... from what I hear.
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:29 PM
BethinNY BethinNY is offline
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Originally Posted by LaciRich View Post
This is good to hear then! I will look into acquiring some, most of the places I've looked at don't have it so I assumed it wasn't available for animals. If anyone has any info on Zithromax for pets, that would be greatly appreciated, too!
Zithromaz=Azithromycin

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Old 02-10-2011, 06:56 PM
TxHills TxHills is offline
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If you've taken tetracycline or amoxicillan before and know you can tolerate it, that's good. But if you haven't....how do you know you won't have adverse side effects? How do you know what and when to dose yourself? And they should not be taken together. Maybe I skimmed over it, but I didn't see anyone say/ask this.
There are also a lot of drug interactions with these two, including with lowly Tums antacid. There are some side effects also....in some people. People should read up on this information, if you haven't already.
Old 02-10-2011, 07:28 PM
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That's definitely the right stuff. Good old Z-Pack.

http://www.drugs.com/imprints/w-961-13112.html

Although I prefer and store the Greenstone 3060G Azithromycin 250mg this would be just fine!

Thanks BethinNY
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:31 PM
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Default Tetracycline is not toxic due only to age

Lets get this over with once and for all.

TETRACYCLINE IS NOT TOXIC DUE ONLY TO AGE

Lone

The first cite indicated that the tetracycline that caused Fanconi's was ingested as 4 Grams that had been wet the prior year! Of course it was toxic and had reacted with air and water for a year!

The other cites I could not read as I don't want to buy them.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05150/512789-114.stm

"Contrary to common belief, there is little scientific evidence that expired drugs are toxic. The Medical Letter could find just one reported case in which a patient may have been harmed by taking an expired drug. It occurred more than 40 years ago and involved a patient who may have suffered kidney damage from taking expired tetracycline, an antibiotic. Since then, tetracycline products have been changed to eliminate the problem.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05150/512789-114.stm#ixzz1Dbor7t2q"



The following is the synopsis of the DOD SLEP (shelf life extension program). DOD wanted to know the usefull life of their medications.

http://armageddonmedicine.net/?p=747

Medication name Dosage form Average extension in months (range)

Amoxicillin sodium Tablets 23 (22-23)
Ampicillin Capsules 49 ( 22-64)
Cephalexin Capsules 57 (28-135)
Ciprofloxacin Tablets 55 (12-142)
Doxycycline Hyclate Capsules 50 (37-66)
Erythromycin lactobionate Powder 60 (38-83)
Sulfisoxasole Tablets 56 (45-68)
Tetracycline HCl Capsules 50 (17-133)

If somone wants to buy the comprehensive article

A summary of the Shelf Life Extension Prorgarm (SLEP) data is available in The Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Vol. 95, No. 7, July 2006.

Available here

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1.../jps.20636/pdf
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:39 PM
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carl

If you would like to put your health at risk without paying for access to factual MEDICAL information and rely on the Post Gazette and a blog entitled "Armageddon Medicine" then the more power to you.

But please do not preach to others that Tetracycline after the expiration date is safe to use.
Old 02-10-2011, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
If you've taken tetracycline or amoxicillan before and know you can tolerate it, that's good. But if you haven't....how do you know you won't have adverse side effects? How do you know what and when to dose yourself? And they should not be taken together. Maybe I skimmed over it, but I didn't see anyone say/ask this.
There are also a lot of drug interactions with these two, including with lowly Tums antacid. There are some side effects also....in some people. People should read up on this information, if you haven't already.
Prentice Hall's Nurse's Drug Guide is a good guide to tell you about medications. It also goes without saying that all these fish antibiotics are for our pets and we would only ever use these meds if a SHTF situation happened. Of course we all know that we should go to the doctor if we are sick and not diagnose ourselves at home. It is only in a situation like Katrina or a total Collapse where you couldn't get medical treatment that people would be treating themselves the best that they can when there is no doctor.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:55 PM
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Lone

I read the original DOD research publication on the SLEP, I have no need to pay for it. It says what is cited above. It looks like recently DOD restricted access to the SLEP results summary.

By the way - how often do you take 4 grams of year old wet tetracycline? Thats what your cite indicates.

Sorry - you are incorrect.

Here's some more.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/10/..._medicati.html

From FDA this good enough? Tetracycline shelf life extension - seems to agree with the above (17-133 month extension) doesn't it?

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/...ain/sld010.htm

Toxicity and efficacy are two different subjects, efficacy does drop off and that is what the extension indicates. The claim of tetracycline toxicity, is not substantiated.
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldanna View Post
Prentice Hall's Nurse's Drug Guide is a good guide to tell you about medications. It also goes without saying that all these fish antibiotics are for our pets and we would only ever use these meds if a SHTF situation happened. Of course we all know that we should go to the doctor if we are sick and not diagnose ourselves at home. It is only in a situation like Katrina or a total Collapse where you couldn't get medical treatment that people would be treating themselves the best that they can when there is no doctor.
Only saying if someone has never taken either med, a SHTF situation where no medical help is available would be a heck of time to find out there was an allergic reaction, or one of several adverse reactions.
Old 02-10-2011, 08:46 PM
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I need to find out more about antibiotics for storage but I have been told by th enurses at my work they keep their drugs in th efridge so they last longer. How much longer... I dont know.
Old 02-10-2011, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxHills View Post
Only saying if someone has never taken either med, a SHTF situation where no medical help is available would be a heck of time to find out there was an allergic reaction, or one of several adverse reactions.
My dog has allergies. He took prednisone tablets until we found out it was our bushes. Prednisone is prescription but can be ordered online. Benedryl is over the counter. Epi pens are carried by anyone with allergies.

Of course if we are using any meds for ourselves and not for our pets then I guess it goes without saying we wouldn't take anything we hadn't already been prescribed unless it was a life or death situation. Which in Katrina, it was Prentice Hall's Nurses Drug guide has a lot of information in it. Great to have just in case. You were right to bring up that you shouldn't take something you aren't sure about if you have allergies unless you have no other options.
Old 02-10-2011, 09:17 PM
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I only brought it up out of personal experience.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldanna View Post
Does anyone have any sources they have used and links to them? I need ones for my "young fish" that are not on vetsupply.
You can find the pharmacies with google searches. If you go to drugbuyers.com you can read reviews from people who have used the pharmacies to see which ones have which meds, who has the best price, which ones are the most reliable, etc. I've been ordering all sorts of stuff online for years now without a problem. Some from Canada, some from as far away as India and Pakistan. They're made at licensed labs that make the brand name meds under license, so it's the same stuff.
Old 02-11-2011, 02:00 AM
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Lightbulb Great thread

Thanks to everyone for all the info.
Old 02-11-2011, 06:32 AM
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Exclamation Please Bear In mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not 100% sure on this....

But!!!!!!!!!!!

Are the additives we use to make the Antibiotic in to pill form the same additives that are in veterinary Antibiotics?

Just because the Antibiotic is the same and safe are the other components safe for human consumption, from the little research I have done so far there is very conflicting information and opinions...

If anyone with more knowledge on this could clarify this for me and others, and let us know why we should believe you,(as in I am a registered Veterinarian / Chemist etc..)

Thanks for reading.
Old 02-11-2011, 10:49 AM
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Modern meds are designed to "fail safe". It would be very detrimental to a manufacturer to formulate a medicine that would turn toxic.

The last human Fanconi's syndrome due to tetracycline toxicity that I could locate was in the early '60s. When lactic acid was used as a stabilizer. Since then citric acid has been substituted and the drug will eventually lose efficacy but not turn toxic.

As stated by several people have stated before, there is great disagreement on the whole concept of either expired meds or "vet" meds. If a doctor will not be available and I have any idea that something I had might make a beneficial difference, I will educate my self and make my wisest guess. To each his own and may a higher power smile on your choice.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
You can find the pharmacies with google searches. If you go to drugbuyers.com you can read reviews from people who have used the pharmacies to see which ones have which meds, who has the best price, which ones are the most reliable, etc. I've been ordering all sorts of stuff online for years now without a problem. Some from Canada, some from as far away as India and Pakistan. They're made at licensed labs that make the brand name meds under license, so it's the same stuff.
Thank you! This was exactly the information I was needing! I have read that some "pharmacies" online are scams and have sold what are basically sugar pills/placebo pills to people. I didn't want this to happen to me because I purchased without any references.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:01 PM
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It is all cool.

However, if I am not mistaken. Antibiotics do not have a long shelf live. Meaning you have to replace them pretty often. I might be wrong but I think it is like 6-8 months for pill form. And 10-14 months for liquid form (ampules).
Old 02-11-2011, 12:53 PM
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About expiration dates: a few years ago I had an abcessed tooth and the dentist gave me penicillin. I asked him about the expiration date, and he said it would be good for about 3 years. This was a pill, not liquid. Remember, the govt requires an expiration date, but someone (does anybody remember reading about this study?) tested the strength of aspirin and found it sound after 10 years. While I know certain things decline in potency, the expiration date may be the perfect way to get people to throw away perfectly good things and buy new things, to the joy of Big Business.
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