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Old 04-28-2010, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: The Everything about a Bunker thread - Pic heavy



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Once again a superb thread!
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: The Everything about a Bunker thread - Pic heavy

Here are some more threads about bunkers, shelters etc. Hope others will add links also, even links to any bunker or NBC shelter sites.

Here is a thread with good pics of a fuel tank shelter/bunker >

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=34934

Here is a thread about buried containers although I would not believe all they posted such as five feet of dirt is ok on top. Need a strong roof with logs or concrete > http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=9158

Here is the thread about the guy who buried 42 buses in Canada > http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=15079


And for those who like videos here are some good ones of bunkers etc. > http://www.safecastle.com/ Safecastle is a sponsor of this survivalistboards.
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:20 AM
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Default Re: The Everything about a Bunker thread - Pic heavy

Here is a pic showing a small culvert shelter and the link showing much more > http://www.radshelters4u.com/mini-blast-shelter.htm
www.radshelters4u.com





IF any are interested in a great deal more info about NBC - fallout shelters here are many more links >

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...=&oq=&gs_rfai=
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:10 AM
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Default Re: The Everything about a Bunker thread - Pic heavy

Here ya' go Mike...sorry it took so long to respond to your PM...got pecked on the left index finger by a baby rattler...got me good!

Anyways, here's my addition:

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=63219


Old 04-29-2010, 11:59 AM
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Default Re: The Everything about a Bunker thread - Pic heavy

Nice Bunker, everyone should have one!
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: The Everything about a Bunker thread - Pic heavy

Hope everyone will look at temu's good thread showing and telling about his underground shelter. >
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=63219

Temu is the Only one I know about who has used a shipping container to make his shelter. IF anyone else has also please say so, hopefully in this thread.
This thread is supposed to be a thread that contains all info about bunkers and even underground shelters, even about root cellars.



Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman8541 View Post
Nice Bunker, everyone should have one!
Especially cavemen, huh? So simple to build even a caveman can do it, even those who have never held a hammer before could do it. Even such as.... well I better not say...

But a bunker and underground shelter is NOT a cave. Some can be but most are NOT!

Here are a Few advantages to having a Bunker some even call it an Underground house >

"We believe that when designed and built
properly on suitable sites, Post/Shoring/
Polyethylene, or PSP, underground dwellings
are the finest that can be constructed.
They have 23 distinct advantages over conventional
structures. These are:

1. NO FOUNDATION. - except the earth.
2. LESS BUILDING MATERIAL. - using lumber or logs.
3. LESS LABOR.
4. MOST AESTHETICALLY PLEASING.
5. LESS TAX.
6. WARM IN WINTER.
7. COOL IN SUMMER.
8. BETTER VIEW. - especially if built on a hillside.
9. BUILT-IN GREENHOUSE.
10. ECOLOGICALLY SOUND.
11. INCREASED YARD SPACE.
12. FALLOUT SHELTER.
13. CUTS ATMOSPHERIC RADIATION.
14. DEFENSIBLE.
15. CONCEALMENT.
16. CLOSER TO SOURCE OF WATER.
17. RELATIVELY FIREPROOF.
18. PIPES NEVER FREEZE.
19. SUPERIOR FLOORING.
20. CAN BE BUILT BY ANYONE.
21. WEATHERPROOF. - extremely good tornado, blizzard and storm protection...
22. LESS MAINTENANCE.
23. SOUNDPROOF."

The previous quote is from Mike Oehler's "The $50 and Up Underground House Book" page 10

Link to some pics of Mike Oehler's > http://www.undergroundhousing.com/structures.html
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:33 PM
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Thumbs up Well done guys nice pics

Both you and Mike O, have great ideas, been working still on the earth house and really like this post or thread you started here. I would encourage those of you who are on the fence to build a/or some type of under-ground structure to do so. Like above the root celler or food storage shelter is great and very inexpensive to build compared to above ground structure of the same type. If I can convince Charlie Echo to take more pics Mike I will and maybe do a thread or post like this, you invest alot of time and energy into sharing and making funny and fun stuff to read here online. Thanks Also the fact that you do it with dial up shows your commitment to share with others THANKS! Kinda nuts to upload for 5 hours but I like it well done.
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:56 AM
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Default Re: The Everything about a Bunker thread - Pic heavy

everyone here has there own style of thinking about building a bunker or fallout shelter ..it just a matter of personal taste in the area..

with the right amount of planning and working with the right items you can turn out a great little shelter for you and the family .it just takes time and a little common sense when doing the work ..

i went with a pre-bult drop in route set up to make it easly on me in the long run and it paid off for me
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Old 05-01-2010, 01:32 AM
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Thoroughly enjoyed reading and viewing this thread. Mike, that took some serious focus and intestinal fortitude to complete ... heckuva job! I have to ask, what was your motivation? What got your started thinking about doing it and what kept you going?

Whenever I see a project like this it always makes me think of Richard Dryfuss in that Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind movie ... him obsessed with building little replicas of that Devil's Tower out there where you are maybe? Or was that Wyoming? Or Montana? Heck, I can't remember. Just wondering what motivated you to do that Mike?

Looks like you did it right given your finances and materials at the time ... does she stay dry in the bad rains? Does she keep the creepy crawlies out? Does she provide fresh air when she is buttoned up? Can you get 360 degree fields of fire without having to poke your head up too far and can you get out without being seen if you have no chance of holding it? Can it be covered up in a landslide or avalanche and, if so, is there a way out so that you're not accidently buried alive? Has it ever been used or invaded while you were gone for any period of time? Is it off the beaten path? Is there anything overtly visible from the air or outside that would give you away to a passer by?

It sure looks like you've got all the bases covered. Heckuva project Mike ... I've got to tell you, that is no small feat. A very respectable endeavor if you will allow me to say so ... and cudos to you for the accomplishment. Also, a sincere thanks to you for sharing. It is just darn impressive.

So are the others in this thread!
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Old 05-01-2010, 01:53 PM
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Mtnman Mike,

Thank you for the link and great job on your bunker! I appreciate the opportunity to comment on your post.

I served 23 years on active duty and retired in September 2008.

In all of those years I have only seen about 10 actual bunkers and all but one was in Iraq and Kuwait during Desert Storm in 1991. These were hardened with concrete and sand bags, but very crude with no heat, water, light or other necessary facilities.

The one real U.S. Army Command Center that I was in was a multi million dollar facility with very large doors, backup generators, air filtration system, on sight water supply and basically self sufficient for about 100 personnel over several years.

I have been involved with setting up several hundred temporary field expedient fighting positions (fox holes) but they are a much different thing than what you have accomplished.

When setting up a field expedient fighting position fox hole, there are several things that must be taken into consideration:

1) Tactical position in relation to the most likely enemy forces route of march.
2) Inclement weather suitability, to include flooding during a heavy rain.
3) Concealment from anyone that is advancing from the side and front positions of the fighting position.
4) Lanes of fire covering expected enemy routes of march.
5) Overhead cover protection and concealment from flying air frames and grenade type threats. Infrared devices have reduced this down to being concealed only from normal line of sight.
6) Aiming stakes for lines of fire and coordination with all other friendly fighting positions to ensure that all avenues of approach are covered with overlapping fire.
7) Convenient method removing soldier waste such as urine, feces and trash produced through consuming meals prepackaged meals.
8) Fighting position must allow for a retrograde (the Army doesn't call it retreat) operation if needed and possible.
9) A method and route to resupply the fighting positions with ammunition and meals without being exposed to expected enemy routes of march.

With Army fox holes there aren't normally any plans for heat because smoke gives away the tactical fighting position. The same with improved lighting.

I am sorry that I couldn't be of more help on this subject, but I just don't have any experience with improved bunkers.

Take care and job well done,

MSG
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Old 05-02-2010, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallo Pazzesco View Post
Thoroughly enjoyed reading and viewing this thread. Mike, that took some serious focus and intestinal fortitude to complete ... heckuva job! I have to ask, what was your motivation? What got your started thinking about doing it and what kept you going?

Whenever I see a project like this it always makes me think of Richard Dryfuss in that Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind movie ... him obsessed with building little replicas of that Devil's Tower out there where you are maybe? Or was that Wyoming? Or Montana? Heck, I can't remember. Just wondering what motivated you to do that Mike?

Looks like you did it right given your finances and materials at the time ... does she stay dry in the bad rains? Does she keep the creepy crawlies out? Does she provide fresh air when she is buttoned up? Can you get 360 degree fields of fire without having to poke your head up too far and can you get out without being seen if you have no chance of holding it? Can it be covered up in a landslide or avalanche and, if so, is there a way out so that you're not accidently buried alive? Has it ever been used or invaded while you were gone for any period of time? Is it off the beaten path? Is there anything overtly visible from the air or outside that would give you away to a passer by?

It sure looks like you've got all the bases covered. Heckuva project Mike ... I've got to tell you, that is no small feat. A very respectable endeavor if you will allow me to say so ... and cudos to you for the accomplishment. Also, a sincere thanks to you for sharing. It is just darn impressive.

So are the others in this thread!
I will get to some others good posts later such as MSG's excellent and helpful post, mainly about foxholes but those are good to know about just in case.
And I can also use much of that info when using the bunker.

But now I must try to answer all of Gallo's good questions. Which the first question alone I could go on for hours about to even try to completely answer it.

Gallo asked: "what was your motivation? What got you started thinking about doing it and what kept you going?"

It is difficult to know exactly when I first started thinking about building a survival retreat with bunker. When I was in high school I did think a bit about nuclear war and was a little scared. I graduated in 1976 in Sterling, Colorado. Sterling is in NE CO and has many minute man missiles around it, especially to the north into SE WY. Which just added to my thinking about nukes, especially whenever driving out in the countryside.

After I got laid off my first "real and good" job I became a survivalist. This was in 1982 when there was also much in the media about nukes and many tv shows and movies also about all of that. When I saw the movie "The Day After" which was hyped heavily by anti-nuke people and when I saw the unnecessary suffering by those dying of radiation from the fallout, it really helped motivate me to think about getting a remote retreat with a good fallout shelter, even a bunker.
As well as other books such as Mike Oehler's book, "The $50 and Up Underground House Book"
I visited Mike O. in 1986, helping him dig a fallout shelter in his newest $2,000 two story underground house. As well as cutting, splitting and stacking a year's worth of firewood and planting his garden.

Mike Oehler was interesting but certainly not perfect. None of us are but just say I could say a lot that I won't on this forum.
I thought if a beer guzzling, pot smoking old hippie like him could have forty beautiful N. Idaho acres with 2 underground houses, then I should be able to someday also.

In 1987 I finally found my mtn place / niche, after traveling all over the western USA, near Encampment, Wyoming.
And the first few years I hiked all over, exploring the area. In July and August 1990 I did build my first building, an A-frame shed which is still standing as shown in some of my other pic threads and on my homepage.

In 1995 I did begin to dig the hole for my underground shelter/bunker. Which I might tell much more about with pics in a later post.

As I have said, it is difficult to come up with simple reasons for my motivation to build a survival retreat and bunker.
But as a survivalist in the 1980's it seemed the best thing to do. I did want to be prepared just in case of nuclear war and Never wanted to die of radiation poisoning or any other terrible things.

In the 1990's the focus was not so much about nuclear war anymore but about government tyranny, control and a possible police state.
And after Ruby Ridge, Waco etc. it seemed like a good idea to maybe have a bunker. I think If the Weaver family would have had a bunker for protection they would not have been shot. Especially if they would have hunkered down in the bunker and not wandered around and the mother would not have been shot by a gov't sniper, in the cabin doorway holding her baby...

There are just too many things that could be motivating factors in building a bunker, fallout shelter or at Least a good underground storage area / root cellar.

Which my underground shelter/bunker hopefully encompasses Everything such as that.
And with up to 12 feet of snowpack in the winter I wanted the very strongest building that could withstand the harshest of weather and the deepest, heaviest of snow.

I have seen camper trailers etc. crushed by the heavy snows in the mountains. Which I also have some pics of that and will probably show all of that in later posts.

The 23 advantages as I gave in a previous post in this thread are also a Few more motivating factors in building my bunker. And IF any who dare call themselves survivalists cannot understand why having a bunker and underground shelter and even a survival retreat is a good idea then they are not what I consider complete survivalists. Probably some kind of preppers but not prepared to survive Anything that might happen in the future.


And since I better not write a book in this post here is your next question > Dreyfuss in the movie, obsessed with building little replicas of that Devil's Tower out there where you are maybe? Or was that Wyoming? Or Montana?

Devil's Tower is north of Gillette and Sundance, Wyoming which I have driven on the interstate there but did not take time to explore that area or get a close look at that rock formation. Here is one link showing and telling about Devil's Tower > http://www.devilstower.net/

It is pretty far from my land in NE WY and my land is in south central WY near the Colorado border.
Maybe someday I will go explore up there also but there are many interesting places in WY.

Gallo asked: "does she stay dry in the bad rains? Does she keep the creepy crawlies out? Does she provide fresh air when she is buttoned up?"

I don't think anyone has called my bunker she before but that is interesting and maybe a good idea.
My bunker does stay dry now that I have finished the roof as I told about all the layers etc. etc. and I have some drainage, even small gutters especially around the back trap door.

When there is the snow melt from early May to late June is when it is the wettest up there. 12 feet of snow pack melting in a couple months or so makes a Lot of water. I have 7 springs when the snow is melting. And 2 good springs by late July. One larger spring is along the private road and my drinking water spring comes out of the mountainside a few hundred feet above my land, in the national forest.

About ten years ago snow melt did get inside the bunker and froze. There was about 3 inches of ice down there which did not melt until late July. I fixed all of that and now especially with two woodstoves down there it can stay nice, warm and dry. It is dry even without the wood stoves though.

She, the bunker, does not keep all of the creepy crawlies out. Spiders are especially difficult although I notice Many more spiders on my tent. They really like it under the rain fly and tarps. As well as moths etc. etc.

Sometimes mice and voles can get inside the bunker but I am trying to seal it up much better. The pine marten as well as ermine and one or two other weasels love going thru the bunker. Ermine especially are small slim weasels who can squeeze thru the smallest openings and are excellent rodent catchers.

I have seen up to 3 martens on the roof of my large woodshed. I doubt many ever see even one marten so I feel fortunate to have seen 3 at once playing on the roof. I think those martens were even born in the woodshed.

A porcupine has also resided in the bunker. He loves the darkness, cool deep places in the back. Difficult to evict a porcupine without killing it. But if/when I ever move into the bunker full time I will seal it up even better to keep out most, if not all things. For now I have a large vent under and around some of the black steel front door and also next to the back trap door. This makes a chimney effect which brings fresh air through the bunker.

I can also use more of the plans from this book > www.oism.org/nwss such as the chapters on ventilation and a KAP = Kearney Air Pump.

Much to do and not sure If I will ever completely finish the bunker for I would Like to dig at least 20 more feet into the mountainside. Even 100 plus more feet like a tunnel or mine shaft. And I might very well build another small cabin near the bunker which would be partially underground but have some windows which look downhill and across the river valley to the beautiful Snowy Range.

And I would like to have a connecting tunnel from this new cabin to the bunker.

Just too much to do by myself. But I do at least try. Possibly a few will come up this year. I have gotten at least 20 messages from various people saying they might come up and I think 4 actually will show up this summer. One or two might even stay from early July to Nov. on or even near my land in the nat'l forest.


Gallo asked: "Can you get 360 degree fields of fire without having to poke your head up too far and can you get out without being seen if you have no chance of holding it?"

I do have a homemade periscope that I can poke up and look all around so I would not expose myself to danger. And I have shown in the pics at the beginning of this thread, the pic of my large porthole that I can look down to the private road. Should be easy to shoot out of this porthole also.

I suppose it is possible some Might be able to get behind my bunker, if they were good hikers etc.

My bunker is L shaped with the front door area can look out towards the back trap door. And I have portholes around this area also. I actually will not tell Everything. Such as about my fields of fire etc. I tell much but a few things I will not give out in case I might need this security and so people would not be able to avoid my fields of fire.

I can get out of the bunker since there are 2 doors and the window also. Although the window would be the most difficult. It might seem the window is a weak spot but it does give a lot of light. And this window was obtained from a factory I worked at. I found much good stuff in the large dumpster at factories as well as their scrap piles.

I will actually not answer about my chances of holding my bunker. Hope I will never have to find out the hard way. Maybe any bunker experts can give more ideas about holding a bunker and what would be the best way to bail out. IF completely surrounded not sure how would be able to get out, even with a bolt tunnel. IF I could make a one or two mile tunnel that came out the western side of the Continental Divide would be good but I doubt greatly that I will ever be able to build something like that.

Gallo asked: "Can it be covered up in a landslide or avalanche and, if so, is there a way out so that you're not accidently buried alive?"

I don't think my bunker can be covered in a landslide or avalanche. It is built on a hillside but the steepest part of the hill - mountainside - is below the bunker. Above it is land that is not too steep and is even a large lodgepole pine forest. Which many of those trees are dead, killed by pine beetles. And I must cut down many of those trees. There are many small pine trees around though.

This land above my bunker is private land, owned by good people who only visit once a month or so. They own 20 acres which seems huge on this mountainside. Their cabin is about a 1/4 mile away from my bunker through a thick forest.

There is national forest that borders two sides of my land but the rest is bordered by much private land.

I can get out, hopefully easily if necessary. I have seen some underground shelters which have the doors opening outwards.

My two doors open in. So even if there is deep snow, a tree that falls across the door or somehow is blocked I can still open the door. In the rare case of 4 or so feet of snow falling in a day or two I could open the door and begin shoveling. An outward opening door would not open if blocked.


Gallo asked: "Has it ever been used or invaded while you were gone for any period of time?"

The only time I have seen that a human ever tried to get inside my bunker is once when I got up there in late June, when others such as I think possibly some neighbor with a cabin were up there earlier than I got up there.
I saw where someone had tried to pry the handle of the front door open. There is just a bent piece of metal. I have added more chains and have 2 strong locks on the front door. One lock is about as big as my fist, which is an expensive lock but I got it at a garage sale in the 1990's for $5.

The back trap door is bolted shut with several large bolts when I am not up there.
The hopefully unbreakable and possibly bullet proof or resistant thick plastic window Maybe could be broken into with large pry bars but there may or may not be some kind of defenses which I will not tell about on this public forum. And it is about a 9 foot drop from the window to the floor of the bunker. Which the window is also above my largest woodstove.

The only ones I know that have used my bunker a Lot are the porcupine and a pika. The pika stores a lot of food in the space between the logs and the plywood sheets of the ceiling as maybe in the pic of the 3 layers of logs people can see the pikas supplies?
I can show some more of that in later posts also.

Gallo asked: "Is it off the beaten path? Is there anything overtly visible from the air or outside that would give you away to a passer by?"

My remote mtn retreat is off the beaten path. The nearest public road is WY state highway 70 which is closed from mid Nov. to about mid June from the deep snows and it is turned into a groomed snowmobile trail.

There is my private road which is mostly only used by neighbors driving around, especially on weekends. Some weekdays there is No traffic, except wild animals. Which deer like to use the private road as well as foxes and last Oct. I saw the bear coming down the dirt road. He turned off and went down the mountain when he saw me on the hillside. And on opening day of elk hunting season in Oct. 1995 I saw a large bull Moose coming down the road.

The Only building I have that can be seen from this private road is my A-frame shed and people would have to look uphill. I have painted this shed dark green with some OD - olive drab and browns. Even using small branches to make patterns on the sides of the shed.

My large wood shed as well as a couple other sheds behind the 10 x 30 foot wood shed cannot be seen from the private road. I will later show a pic or two of that shed although on my homepage and in other threads I also show that large woodshed. Which is very well camoflaged with 7 live trees as part of the shed.

And all people can see of the bunker is the dead tree on top. Which that dead tree hides the stove pipe. I usually burn wood hot and fast since I have a huge amount of firewood. And hot and fast burning gives off very little smoke.

I would like to fly over my mtn land someday but I have looked at it from 2 plus miles away on a mtnside and I cannot see anything but trees. I also have looked at google satellite images and only have seen trees and my private road. Over a mile away I easily see 2 red roofs of cabins, from the google images, built by two guys who do not care about camoflage or anything like that.

I could go on and on much more, maybe later. Hope I did not bore anyone, IF very many even read all of this. As any can see I am not a good fiction writer such as a few members are in the books and stories section. I just answer questions as well as I can.
Hope I answered everything you wanted to know Gallo. And I hope a few read all of this since it took me about 1 and 1/2 hours to write.

I do like answering questions for I never get a chance to discuss my retreat or bunker in "real" life. I have given a tour to a Few neighbors with cabins within a mile or two of my place. Since I think a couple of them had trespassed in the past being curious about what I could do up there all summer.

I gave a tour to a college prof. with his wife and when they saw my bunker, he whispered to her, "Looks like a survivalist" and another neighbor also said one or two think I am a survivalist. Don't know where they would possibly get an idea like that?

Anymore questions, comments, even harsh criticism or critiques are welcome.
Old 05-02-2010, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtnman Mike View Post
Hope I did not bore anyone, IF very many even read all of this. As any can see I am not a good fiction writer such as a few members are in the books and stories section. I just answer questions as well as I can.
Hope I answered everything you wanted to know Gallo. And I hope a few read all of this since it took me about 1 and 1/2 hours to write.
.

I read it all, and I appreciate everything you write, Mtnman Mike. I doubt we'll ever have anything resembling what you have up there; all the best. Everything I see of your place reminds me that i should have started back in the 80s when I first felt the 'stirrings'...oh well.
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Old 05-02-2010, 07:59 AM
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Mtnmike has done diff things with his shelter and my shelter is as far as you can get from his ..my was design to be a home after i retired and it was design with those features in mind along with the extras items add to the unit for a nbc warefare event ..i start with better pictures when i get a better camera for the i still learning how to use the digtal camera i have and some of the shots have not turned out as good as i want them to ..

here is some of the things i did with my shelter in the diff areas..

like in the area of support or the wireinging and hose i took something from the boating world and made work in the shelter

the wireing system are supported by the hooks unit to keep them from rubbing on the wall as it need

the hose system is the same way ..

the outside unit is semi design like this one area but it a little diff than my unit for my unit is at a angle comeing into the area ..

the entances to the shelter has this one the units .
the hatch is opened by something like this unit when it in a closed prostion and locked down for security and iam away from the area ..

the entance is turned at a 90 dregee angle from each other to keep the down the problems in a full scale nbc attack ..along with the hatch area has the air filter value unit to keep the unit air filtering line closed intill it need ..

the door units are design to fit inside the round oval opening and make the place more liveable like a large sailboat with the each entance area comeing down from the top entance has a small lockable latchable type door unit with a security screen system that can be pulled across and latched into the place to slow down any type of forced entance to the shelter ..

also the top hatch area has a very fine mesh style security door to let fresh air into the shelter entance with the hatch in a open prostion unit ..along with also to keep out the large creppy crawlers types of local wildlife ..the vents system are screened with a very few mesh wire to keep out the crawling typle bugs ..

also the entance unit wires and pipes have been sealed inside a pipe filled with foam that is shot to about 8. inchs deep inside the pipe to help seal the pipe and fresh foam is shot into the pipe once a year ..

the tub stowage units for the items in the stowage unit

plus a few diff drawing of the rocks cribs and other units layouts on the land ..this are really rough stetchs of the way i wanted the units to be ..
Attached Thumbnails
2.jpg   366976439.jpg   IMG_0891.jpg   IMG_0892.jpg   muhftt.jpg   rock crib air intake and exhaust set up.jpg  

side view of shelter air intake and rock cribs.jpg   side view of the shelter spetic line and set up.jpg   ugstairs1009.jpg   zoom-1246380088-8993.jpg   RDVC606S465.jpg  
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Mtnman Mike View Post
Here is a pic showing a small culvert shelter and the link showing much more > http://www.radshelters4u.com/mini-blast-shelter.htm
www.radshelters4u.com





IF any are interested in a great deal more info about NBC - fallout shelters here are many more links >

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...=&oq=&gs_rfai=
Somebody better install some air vents........
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Old 05-02-2010, 12:50 PM
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i think me and mike and few others have this disease lol.


I think its a good time to get back into bunker/fallout related culture.

watch that series and you will know the basics of what you need to start a good shelter (supplywise) next thing im looking up , are ways to make the best shelters.
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Old 05-02-2010, 02:33 PM
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Mtnman Mike,

I believe an underground bunker complex is a viable resource for people who may be attempting to escape Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical attack. It is also a good place to keep valuable stored items. I also think that once the need arrives it will be a good place to be especially if any one or more of the NBC attacks were to occur.

There are good aspects for this type of BOL and there are bad features that are worthy of discussion. First of all let’s talk about the bad views.

If you’re in there and there is an earth movement, or a large rain storm, or a source of water is somehow directed at your bunker you might be in real trouble. You also could be in trouble if there is a forest fire or trees falling on top of your bunker access. I saw one instance where a landslide completely covered the hideaway with about five acres of earth. I don’t need to tell you what the results were of that disaster.

Also unless you are real good at covering your tracks, you will lead an adversary right to the BOL. They will use the same road you used, if they see your vehicle they will know you’re around there somewhere. They can also find your entrance if they are determined to do that. If you’re down there, where will you go?

These bunkers are difficult to defend because usually there are only a couple of ways in and out. The attack will come from the outside of the bunker. If the attackers are sophisticated and they have the use of gas, you’re hosed. The Egyptians just gassed a bunch of Hamas who were smuggling goods through a tunnel. That’s a nasty way to go it is also very final and the escape from the use of gas is almost not viable because it destroys a person before they can do anything in defense. The same goes for flooding.

Making sure the air in there is abundant will be critical. You might use a Kearney hand operated air pump for that purpose. Other alternates are possible but the further down you are the harder it is to get the air down there or back out. You must be able to remove carbon dioxide to prevent a buildup which is toxic. You must be careful about cooking, small stoves, lanterns and small heaters. Any buildup of carbon monoxide will put you to sleep forever. It like most gasses is odorless and silent.

I saw many fortifications in terms of underground in Vietnam and I also visited some others on a few Pacific Islands where Japanese troops took refuge. Many were complex undertakings. Most were tombs in the end once they were discovered. Many were utilized for years undetected and provided safety and a living complex for many thousand troops relatively comfortably. So, I’m not saying they aren’t good or safe, I’m saying there are more things to take into account than just digging a hole in the ground and then stocking it.

Most modern underground structures are self contained with stored water that is gravity fed, fuel which is also gravity fed, battery power, air recirculation systems, storage, waste disposal, holding tanks and or compost storage where methane can be generated and used later. Sleeping and living accommodations must be adequate and comfortable for the inhabitants. Another criterion to be taken into consideration is privacy. Everyone needs to be able to go somewhere away from the others to have some privacy.

Any underground bunker must have several escape routes to get away in a hurry if need be. If yours doesn’t you need to be doing that because in any survival situation an alternate plan is always a favorable aspect.

At a Retreat, which is what I advocate to anyone who wants to listen, I recommend your group have a myriad of underground shelters for food storage, and to escape an attack if you are overrun by a superior force. I don’t recommend it be the primary means of shelter and protection because of what I said in the foregoing.

We are all faced with choices as to what we will do, how we will do it when the times comes, and exactly how and what we do will be the telling factor. The biggest drawback I see to your BOL is the distance away you are from it. Not that is bad, but it could be the difference between you getting there when the time comes or not.

In case someone out there decides to slam me because of what I said here, I want to say that Mike asked me for a critique’. I have given an honest one. I hope it is appreciated for what it is, a constructive criticism and not a slam. There are numerous ways to survive. In my second book there is a fellow who goes to Avalon after wandering with his wife and two kids building small houses out of twigs and leafs who lives off the land. They move frequently doing everything again and again.They do it for a year and a half. It can be done but it is difficult. Survival is difficult and don’t let anyone believe it isn’t. When you are reduced to having to look for food and building materials constantly, it will be a different life.

I salute you for what you have accomplished. You do a lot more than just talk the talk. My respect for you cannot be expressed or measured. Not many people can show the fruits of incredible labors as you have done. If anyone is going to survive once TSHTF it will be you and people like you. Many talk big but do little more than talk. I cannot overstate my admiration for what you have established. I'd group up with you anytime anywhere and that is not idle talk.

Caseyboy
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:48 AM
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A few people I should respond to and I will eventually.

Here is a link I just found that while not a bunker, it could possibly be made into a bunker like structure. This is unconventional building and that is what I like. Especially if it is strong, natural using logs, rocks and other natural materials and inexpensive. Any other good links to unconventional buildings, structures etc. would be helpful info in this thread.
This is called an Earthship and Maybe someday I can make another structure something like this > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthship
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:05 PM
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Mike - I read the whole post and was not bored in the least. It was a study in human nature and it is amazing how certain triggers, or events, set us all on our paths in life.

I have this buddy of mine that refers to we survivalists as "bunker heads." He thinks he's got it all figured out and that it has something to do with genetically encoded mammalian circuitry to go underground when threatened .... who knows, but I know the feeling.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:42 PM
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sad but true part in our own lifes is the whats and needs of own self compared to the needs of others..

i have allways thought that if i try reall hard i can get people to change there ways about survival and put away for the future ..but in the long run i know that it going to be some people who thought a head in the game that it is going to come out better off and those who made fun of the us are going to be the ones who are comeing around and looking for a handout ..sad but true..

when i bult my first shelter is was the fact that i knew that i was not going to be there for i would be dead or in a Russain pow camp somewhere if i was luckly ..but i knew in the end i had to take care of the family ..so i bult the shelter for them ..

now my need i want to have it for the basic case of oh-crap moment and i have a place to go in my life ..but to the others they will never get it ..so to me hey iam sorry but your going die there lone ranger after the snake bit in the wrong place ..as the old joke goes ..
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:59 AM
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Anymore questions, comments, even harsh criticism or critiques are welcome.
What is your daily routine like.

P.S. I am old but I can cook the old timey way. A wood stove is nothing new to me. Is that what you use? I can also cook over an open fire but need a squatting stool or log due to getting up there in age. I have had plenty of experiences with out houses as well. Do you have cast iron cooking utensils? I assume that you do. I sure would like to visit but that is probably just a day dream.
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