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11-07-2009, 01:57 PM
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And no one can EVER convince me that vaccines are safe, I have researched them too well, and know from personal experience. 
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11-07-2009, 02:13 PM
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Right, just like there's really no SCIU, ACORN, and other folks paid to go around cheerleading for the govt. when it faces opposition (such as the tea parties and town halls). Yea those thugs didn't exist at all, they were all just a figment of ppl's imagination! Mainstream news has reported that Obama has placed countless ads for "paid volunteers" to promote his agenda. Where have you been? Quote:
Really why do you think Homeland Security exists? You don't think they get on the internet and pretend to be whatever they thinks threatens the govt, which by their own admission is Vets, Christian believers, gun-owners, right-wing conservative folks, and ******** protesters? You're not based in reality if you don't think they have paid ppl pretending to be survivors or whatever they assume is too anti-establishment, infiltrating the networks as one of them. I know for a fact they do, as I've known an agent who's done it. It's done all the time, most times legitimately as part of their investigations into genuine criminal activity. However, some is only "suspected". They consider gun ownership anti-govt activity, and are always looking for a way to criminalize it. Survivalists are considered fringe in their beliefs about govt. If you think there are no plants here wanting to confuse, change message, pretend to be common folk "just trying to learn" but promoting the status quo of non-thinking sheeple in an effort to shame ppl who do think outside the box-you are so ignorant of survivalism that there's no point discussing with you. Btw I saw no one call you a plant. However, arguing that survivalists aren't carefully monitored is an insistence that will discredit you and have ppl wondering. You can ridicule it as absurd and continue status quo thinking. I'll be leary of anyone I choose to be. And who come in here by the droves and exhibit the exact opposite of a survivalist mentality by expecting folks to simply act like the sheeple and trust the friggin govt! ROFL!! 
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11-07-2009, 02:21 PM
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I was happy being just a reader of the forums, but then I stumbled upon this category, and found out, that ~75% of the participants had a very negative opinion about the swine flu vaccine and would not take it. It came to me as a surprise, because I thought most people would be rushing to get it. When reading about the reasons for it, however, although some have decided against the vax after making an informed risk vs reward assessment, most are based on ignorance, misinformation or paranoia. It came to the point I thought I had to register and share my opinion, as well as helping others to get informed, always with reference to studies and reliable sources of information. That is also why I check this topic most frequently, and lately almost exclusively, wanting to hear feedback and news about the subject. If you think I´m a plant, I can´t help you there. There is nothing I can say that would change your mind, nothing I can do to prove I´m not. (If I were, I wouldn´t tell you anyway, would I?  ) Quote:
"DOD Officials Report They Considered, but Decided Against, Using Vaccines With Novel Adjuvent Formulations, Including Squalene" "Independent Researchers State They Have Detected Squalene Antibodies in Gulf War-Era Veterans" http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...=f:ns99005.pdf The thing is, those antibodies are also present in people who were never immunized with vaccines containing squalene. Also, antisqualene antibodies are not increased by immunization with vaccines with the MF59 adjuvant (squalene). "Squalene is a naturally occurring oil which has been used in the development of vaccine adjuvants, such as the oil-in-water emulsion MF59. In past years, by use of noncontrolled and nonvalidated assays, a claim was made that antisqualene antibodies were detectable in the sera of individuals with the so-called Gulf War syndrome. Using a validated enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay for the quantitation of immunoglobulin G (IgG) and IgM antibodies against squalene, we demonstrated that antisqualene antibodies are frequently detectable at very low titers in the sera of subjects who were never immunized with vaccines containing squalene. More importantly, vaccination with a subunit influenza vaccine with the MF59 adjuvant neither induced antisqualene antibodies nor enhanced preexisting antisqualene antibody titers. In conclusion, antisqualene antibodies are not increased by immunization with vaccines with the MF59 adjuvant. These data extend the safety profile of the MF59 emulsion adjuvant." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...6/?tool=pubmed Quote:
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"Health Risks from Excessive Vitamin D Vitamin D toxicity can cause nonspecific symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, poor appetite, constipation, weakness, and weight loss [87]. More seriously, it can also raise blood levels of calcium, causing mental status changes such as confusion and heart rhythm abnormalities [7]. The use of supplements of both calcium (1,000 mg/day) and vitamin D (400 IU/day) by postmenopausal women was associated with a 17% increase in the risk of kidney stones over 7 years in the Women's Health Initiative [88]. Deposition of calcium and phosphate in the kidneys and other soft tissues can also be caused by excessive vitamin D levels [46]. A serum 25(OH)D concentration consistently >200 ng/mL (>500 nmol/L) is considered to be potentially toxic [11]. In an animal model, concentrations ≤400 ng/mL (≤1,000 nmol/L) were not associated with harm [14]." http://dietary-supplements.info.nih....s/vitamind.asp I don´t want to dwell on Vit D. It´s just an example, because you mentioned it. I was referring to health products on that page in general. Quote:
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11-07-2009, 02:38 PM
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We are all faced with information overload. Sadly, much of the information we receive on a daily basis is disseminated by a few central producers who pick and choose very carefully what reaches our attention and what does not. This has been especially true for swine-flu where the media has remained almost militarily on-message, very rarely permitting alternative messages to get through. An internet forum is only as good as its posters. The electronic term signal-to-noise ratio has been co-opted by the forum-management world as way to value a forum. Signal is good information. Noise is clutter. This forum can be an exceptional place for people with all views to come together and debate the main issues and when responding to posts you often add "signal" to the conversation. The topics you create, on the other hand, are almost entirely "noise" as they are simple copy/pastes of mainstream news articles we can get everywhere else. Most disappear with zero responses but have the effect of devaluing the forum as a whole. Last edited by HowardRoark; 11-07-2009 at 03:06 PM..
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11-08-2009, 06:59 PM
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The Govt puts Vit D in our milk, asking people to take more vitamin D is hardly a conspiracy to get people to buy "our" vitamins. :\ I don't think the Dr. is associated with Carlson's.
Vit D provides more health benefits than just to bones and preventing ricketts. Since I can get a bottle of Vit D to last me and the family a month, cost about 8$... I don't exactly feel like I'm being ripped off. That's cheaper than 4 flu shots, anyway. Oh, that Carlson's also supplies omega-3s and is lemon-flavored "Castor Oil," you know that stuff that generations before vaccines gave their kids to "keep them healthy." It doesn't bother me if you choose to have the vaccine... why should it bother you if others are cautious??
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11-09-2009, 11:08 AM
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Sorry it took a while to get back, but I have a life that sometimes interrupts my time with the site.
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If you want to read them all go to: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...&aq=f&oq=&aqi= If you want more on Squelene try: Illegal vaccine link to Gulf war syndrome http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ernationalnews or if you want to read all the google articles and decide for yourself try: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...&aq=f&oq=&aqi= The researchers I am quoting don't sell books, and they don't sell herbs. They are strictly researchers, and I would trust independent researchers over government paid researchers whose job relys on them proving the government's position any day of the week.
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The strength of the pack is in the wolf; the strength of the wolf is in the pack!
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11-09-2009, 01:58 PM
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Pure tinfoil.
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11-09-2009, 02:19 PM
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However did human survive so long without the large pharm. companies and their crap. If you want the vaccine, go for it. I choose to believe that a healthy lifestyle and strong immune system should take of most things. Everytime people think they can do it better they end up screwing something up and you know that if big money is involved, your welfare is at the bottom of the list.
Paul.
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11-09-2009, 02:37 PM
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I read your thread after being alerted by Google alerts, but I have a ton of points I'd love to make in all your posts but I just want to let you know that there are a TON of people having bad reactions from death to kidney failure to miscarriages - nothing that is being reported on as a whole but you may want to look at my blog @ http://vaccine-reactions.blogspot.com/ to see some of them
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11-09-2009, 04:49 PM
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11-09-2009, 05:30 PM
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Dr. Mercola on the other hand has consistently preached self-responsibility. I read his blog every day because he is the type of doctor who gives you the truth, regardless of the consequences. The National Vaccine Information Center is at the forefront of the info-war regarding vaccination. What do they have to gain?
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11-09-2009, 07:20 PM
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I don't care if the research is paid by the government or done independently, as long as it follows the scientific method and is controlled, peer-reviewed, and published in a respectable journal.
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11-09-2009, 08:56 PM
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H1N1 until they got samples of it ... which was sometime after 2000, which was when they told the public of it's existance. And I noticed you conveniently left out the part comparing herbal practioners making $75,000.000 in donations when the Drug companies make BILLIONS on their vaccines. But I guess you didn't have the answer to that in your script. And by the way, what is this "we prove your facts wrong" ... you are the only one on here telling everyone to drink the government kool-aid. Here's the research you requested! Research: http://cryptogon.com/?p=10257 According to Dr. Viera Scheibner, Ph.D., a former principle research scientist for the government of Australia: “… this adjuvant [squalene] contributed to the cascade of reactions called “Gulf War Syndrome,” documented in the soldiers involved in the Gulf War. The symptoms they developed included arthritis, fibromyalgia, lymphadenopathy, rashes, photosensitive rashes, malar rashes, chronic fatigue, chronic headaches, abnormal body hair loss, non-healing skin lesions, aphthous ulcers, dizziness, weakness, memory loss, seizures, mood changes, neuropsychiatric problems, anti-thyroid effects, anaemia, elevated ESR (erythrocyte sedimentation rate), systemic lupus erythematosus, multiple sclerosis, ALS (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), Raynaud’s phenomenon, Sjorgren’s syndrome, chronic diarrhoea, night sweats and low-grade fevers.”[xii] Dr Jules Freund did research back in the 1930's. Just google his name. http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=3582 "The classic oil based adjuvant called Freund’s Complete Adjuvant can cause permanent organ damage and irreversible disease – specifically autoimmune diseases. When scientists want to induce autoimmune disease in a lab animal, they inject it with Freund’s Complete Adjuvant, which causes great suffering and is considered by some too inhumane to even inject into animals. Dr. Jules Freund creator of this oil based adjuvant warned in 1956 that animals injected with his formulation developed terrible, incurable conditions: allergic aspermatogenesis (stoppage of sperm production), experimental allergic encephalomyelitis (the animal version of MS), allergic neuritis (inflammation of the nerves that can lead to paralysis) and other severe autoimmune disorders. (6) Adjuvants can break “tolerance”, meaning they can disable the immune system to the degree that it loses its ability to distinguish what is “self” from what is foreign. Normally, the immune system ignores the constituents of one’s own body. Immunologists call this “tolerance”. But if something happens to break “tolerance”, then the immune system turns relentlessly self-destructive, attacking the body it is supposed to defend. (6) http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2009...air-fertility/ “Swine flu” vaccine has adjuvants that impair fertility By JB The “swine flu” vaccine contains ingredients that impair fertility. Daniel Solis from the Czech Republic has researched the side-effects of the adjuvant, squalene, and discovered it is known to destroy fertility as well as causing other forms of damage. A patent for a vaccine to impair fertility in animals contains squalene. The plan to use this fertility-impairing adjuvant in the “swine flu” vaccine against a flu that has so far been far less irksome than the ordinary seasonal flu underscores concerns that this H1N1 mass vaccination programme mandated by WHO with the support of pharma companies such as Baxter is designed primarily to cause death and injury, and so significantly reduce the global population. Is it any wonder that these “vaccines” are classified as bioweapons by the regulators? For expert information on the dangers of vaccines, check out Dr Rebecca Carley’s website. http://www.drcarley.com/ Daniel Solis has also made a formal complaint against the head of the Czech Republic’s FDA and the Deputy Health Minister for awarding a contract to Baxter worth 1,5 billion CZK without an open tender. More legal action in the Czech Republic is planned with the aim of getting Baxter’s licence to manufacture the “swine flu” vaccine at Bohumil suspended and to make Baxter accountable for the incident at the BioTest lab, which detected the live bird flu virus in vaccine material from Baxter on February 6th. Members of the lab had to be treated preventatively for bird flu and were put in quarantine. Also, a Czech translation of “Evidence-of-the-Use-of-Pandemic-Flu-to-Depopulate-USA” can be found here: http://www.outsidermedia.cz/Obvinuji...-vrazdy-1.aspx http://www.outsidermedia.cz/Obvinuji...azdy-II-1.aspx “I have focused on the adjuvants made of monophosforyl lipid A (MPL) MF59TM (containing a polysorpate TweenTM 80) or AS03, AS04 also known as squalene in the proposed vaccines, which are immunosterilant or an immunocontraceptive,” Daniel Solis writes. “The patent of the veterinary FERTILITY IMPAIRING VACCINE can be found on-line. It mentions both, the lipoid adjuvans squalene and the polysorbate TM80. Here are the qotes from the patent and further some clinical studies about the toxicity of both. (WO/1999/034825) FERTILITY IMPAIRING VACCINE AND METHOD OF USE This application claims the benefit of U. S. Provisional Application No. 60/070,375, filed January 2,1998, U. S. Provisional Application No. 60/071,406, filed January 15,1998 “The vaccine of the invention preferably additionally includes an immunological adjuvant to enhance the immunological response of the subject to the glycoprotein antigen. Examples of adjuvants include Freund’s Complete Adjuvant, Freund’s Incomplete Adjuvant, and an adjuvant comprising an immunostimulant such as synthetic trehalose dicorynomycolate (STDCM) and an oil such as squalene oil (see P. Willis et al., J. Equine Vet. Sci., 14,364-370 (1994)). An adjuvant comprising synthetic trehalose dicorynemycolate, squalene oil, and a surfactant such as lecithin is preferred. Lecithin typically includes phosphatidyl choline. In a preferred embodiment the vaccine comprises oil, preferably a biodegradable oil such as squalene oil. Typically, the vaccine is prepared using an adjuvant concentrate which contains lecithin in squalene oil. The aqueous solution glycoprotein is typically a phosphate-buffered saline (PBS) solution, and additionally preferably contains Tween 80.” Abstract: A vaccine comprising an antigen derived from a zona pellucida glycoprotein is effective to impair fertility in animals, preferably carnivores. The vaccine can be used as an immunosterilant or an immunocontraceptive. http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=1999034825 Description: http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?...5&DISPLAY=DESC __________________________________________________ ________ Annals of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology, Volume 95, Number 6, December 2005 , pp. 593-599(7) “Polysorbate 80 was identified as the causative agent for the anaphylactoid reaction of nonimmunologic origin in the patient. Conclusions: Polysorbate 80 is a ubiquitously used solubilizing agent that can cause severe nonimmunologic anaphylactoid reactions.” Gajdova M, Jakubovsky J, Valky J. Institute of Preventive and Clinical Medicine, Limbová, Bratislava. Delayed effects of neonatal exposure to Tween 80 on female reproductive organs in rats. Food Chem Toxicol. 1993 Mar;31(3):183-90. PMID: 8473002. “Baby female rats were injected with polysorbate 80 at days 4-7 after birth. It accelerated the maturing of the rats and caused changes to the vagina and womb lining, hormonal changes, ovary deformities and degenerative follicles.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8473002 The Endogenous Adjuvant Squalene Can Induce a Chronic T-Cell-Mediated Arthritis in Rats Barbro C. Carlson*, Ĺsa M. Jansson*, Anders Larsson, Anders Bucht and Johnny C. Lorentzen* http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content...act/156/6/2057 __________________________________________________ ________ Now, how can WHO claim the adjuvans is harmless: http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/to.../en/index.html when there is clear evidence of its effects provoking AI deseases: ANTI-SQUALENE ANTIBODIES LINK GULF WAR SYNDROME TO ANTHRAX VACCINE http://www.autoimmune.com/GWSGen.html or “Dr. Jules Freund creator of this oil-based adjuvant warned in 1956 that animals injected with his formulation developed terrible, incurable conditions: allergic aspermatogenesis (stoppage of sperm production), experimental allergic encephalomyelitis (the animal version of MS), allergic neuritis (inflammation of the nerves that can lead to paralysis) and other severe autoimmune disorders. Source: : Gary Matsumoto, Vaccine A-The Covert Government Experiment That’s Killing our Soldiers and Why GI’s are Only the First Victims, Kapitola 3. “The Greatest Story Never Told” http://www.vaccine-a.com/excerpt.html” Daniel Solis, Prague, Czech Republic http://www.denikpolitika.cz/politici...-solis/blog#31 http://www.czechfp.cz/site/?p=8009 Other references that you can look up: Stephen Straus's Herpes Vaccine Trial w/MP-59 adjuvant Dutch Government Study done in 1993 - said squalene caused severe side effects Japanese Scientists Shin & Junko Yoshino Baylor College of Medicine Trials - said severe complications Pam Asa Research Sandra Chang @ Leahi Hospital in Honolulu HI and also of interest, a paper by: Ayvazian & Badger 1948 I can't find the link, but the soviets were working with squalene as a bio weapon back in the 80's saying it was the most insidious thing they had seen because it occurred naturally in the body, but when injected, it destroyed the autoimmune system. Sorry I didn't have time to find you more tests, but when I get a break I will get back to it for you. Enjoy! I noticed you said, "I don't care if the research is paid by the government or done independently, as long as it follows the scientific method and is controlled, peer-reviewed, and published in a respectable journal." I think it is really strange that all the research being done in other countries is being ignored by the American Medical Journal, and I can't help wondering why, unless maybe it is because they are in bed with the vaccine companies, and don't want anything getting out that would cut their proffit margin. And if no one will publish their research, even though conducted following strict scientific methods, it is kind of hard to get a peer review, but you already know that don't you beer?
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The strength of the pack is in the wolf; the strength of the wolf is in the pack! Last edited by Graywolf; 11-09-2009 at 09:02 PM.. Reason: Forgot something
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11-10-2009, 01:08 AM
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http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...5&postcount=43 Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freund%27s_adjuvant Are you sure you have read this before posting? Or you just have something against "adjuvants" in all its applications? Quote:
In this case, however, it´s being used in animal control, and the antigen is proteins from the zona pellucida. "The zona pellucida is commonly used to control wildlife population problems by immunocontraception. When the zona pellucida of one animal species is injected into the bloodstream of another, it results in sterility of the second species due to immune response. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zona_pellucida The adjuvant is merely used to boost immunoresponse. I find that the choice of words: "fertility-impairing adjuvant" a particularly misleading and unfair attempt to spread panic, as one could imagine the adjuvant impairs fertility by itself, when the case is it´s used just with the purpose of boosting immune response to the antigen, which are proteins of the "Ovule" membrane. Quote:
Ok, Polisorbate 80 causes infertility in mice. But at what dosage? Is it the same as the vaccine? What is the study designed to prove? What´s the methodology? What about in humans? Quote:
Studies support the safety of MF59 (squalene) adjuvant in vaccines. "This large-scale analysis supports the good safety profile of (+)MF59 seasonal and pandemic influenza vaccines and suggests a clinical benefit over (−)MF59 influenza vaccines." http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...bda01815c85694 The rest is just a repetition of the studies you already posted. I do wish you have read them all, put some in order and shared your thoughts about them, instead of just spouting them out "as is" from your favorite conspiracy site. Quote:
http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...4&postcount=28
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11-10-2009, 08:42 AM
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I sure hope they are paying you a good salary beerman, cause you really work hard for them! You can say whatever you want, but you and I both know that there is research out there confirming how dangerous the stuff they are putting into these vaccines is to the public. If you were doing the research for yourself, you would have sited some of the negative info, as well as, the positive, so I can only assume that wasn't given to you in your "info" packet from your handlers. I care about the people on this site, and if there is a chance that this will harm them, I will scream it from the rooftops. This vaccine is a slow kill weapon! Sadly, when the truth finally comes out, it will be too late for a lot of people, and you can be proud of the fact that you helped, so thank you for your service! I think your posts have done more to convince people something is up than I ever could have by myself! As for me, I am going with that scripture that says, "You will know them by their fruits". That is how I know this government, and it is how I know you. From this point forward, I agree that we totally disagree. Have a good day!
 PS> For those that don't know, the adjuvant MP-59 has two components. The first is squalene, and the second is called gp120 and it is a glycoprotein fragment isolated from HIV - the virus responsible for the rapid dementia seen in AIDS patients.
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The strength of the pack is in the wolf; the strength of the wolf is in the pack! Last edited by Graywolf; 11-10-2009 at 08:51 AM..
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11-11-2009, 10:17 AM
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What's most retarded is we are still discussing a vaccine for THE FRIGGIN FLU! By stats alone, this is MUCH LESS dangerous than the regular influenza strands this year. In Youngstown Ohio the hospital had a large quarentined section of flu patients. Shockingly mostly were very ill from the regular influenza-A flu shot, only a couple had H1N1. One 40-yr old actually developed guillian barre syndrome after 24 hours.
The h1n1 vaccine contains 25,000 times the legal dosage of thimerasol. It has aluminum and MF-59 as well, which are banned by the FDA. Beerman is clearly willing to copy/paste anything he finds that supports it regardless of reality and factual cases. If the government says hop, he will do it all day.  Even if Americans were stupid enough to run out and demand this vaccine today, it will not stop you from getting H1N1 for 3 weeks minimum. We are in peak flu season so why would you take it now? I could care less if I get the flu. The worst thing that could happen is I get a fever. Im not an unhealthy tool with a name like "Beerman". I take various vitamins, minerals, eat proper nutrition, and exercise to retain my health. I don't need to inject known illegal poisons into my blood to prevent 24 hours of body ache. Sorry common sense left this thread a long time ago! Regardless what you all do, it's YOUR choice kids. Stop arguing with the idiots, it only fuels the fires for them to spread more propaganda from the nightly news.
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