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37K views 62 replies 34 participants last post by  jknova 
#1 ·
Educate me.
 
#2 ·
Ballistically, the .22 is faster out of longer barrels. But in short 2" - 3" pocket pistol barrels they are about equal. The .25 ACP is a bit more reliable than .22 rimfire. The .25 ACP is reloadable, the .22 rimfire isn't.

As for a pocket gun, I'd recommend a .32 ACP over the .25, but I'd take the .25 over the .22 rimfire.

Just my opinion.
 
#35 ·
Ballistically, the .22 is faster out of longer barrels. But in short 2" - 3" pocket pistol barrels they are about equal. The .25 ACP is a bit more reliable than .22 rimfire. The .25 ACP is reloadable, the .22 rimfire isn't.

As for a pocket gun, I'd recommend a .32 ACP over the .25, but I'd take the .25 over the .22 rimfire.

Just my opinion.
That depends on which brand, I'd put a quality.22 like Walther, S&W and others against any .25 made for reliability including Colt and Berretta. Also, do you actually know anyone who reloads .25 ACP? If you have I'd be extremely surprised because I've been shooting guns and hanging out at gun shops and attending gun shows for 30 years and never have. You're technically right, you can reload a .25 most don't.
 
#3 ·
Educate me.
What would you be using it for? In what type of gun?

*edit* I see in another thread you're looking at a .25 mousegun. Probably more reliable than a .22 lr, although I used to have a P22 walther that went bang every time as long as it had the right ammo...

I don't see why a .25 wouldn't fit the bill as a warm-weather pocket carry or a backup.
 
#14 ·
Read the history of "The Grim Sleeper" for an insight into just how deadly the 25 actually is... most of his kills were a single shot... max two... to the upper torso.

Surprisingly his sole survivor said she passed out immediatly after being shot once the
And she was awaken by the camera flash when he took her picture. I'd call that "fainted" not "passed out" from some kind of trauma. But well ya know, that's speculation I wasn't there.

What I do know; if one is carrying a handgun for protection and not doing everything one can do to "stack the deck" in their favor, it is just . . . . goofy. It makes no sense.:thumb:
 
#9 ·
Personally I look at the cost and availability of the caliber, the 22 is a hands down the better choice to me. I don't recommend the 25 because of that. My own mother has a purse gun in 25 and I've asked her many times to replace it but she already has it and is timid to learning a new one. For me the 25 and 32 are obsolete. I'll take a 22 over a 25 (better value) and a 380 over the 32 (better performance) every time. If you have already invested in guns of 25 or 32 long ago then maybe it still makes sense for you to keep them today. However there are better options now and to choose to buy a new gun in either of these calibers, just doesn't make sense to me.
 
#10 ·
Personally I would go with the 22 as well, inexpensive ammo that is basically able to be bought anywhere makes it more desireable to me. I have a Buckmark that goes bang everytime that I can hit my target at 50 yards with irons everytime. I just took my mom to her first class for getting a concealed carry and we are considering a P22 for her and I might buy one for giggles. I also like having ammo on hand that is used in multiple weapons not just one especially in any sort of survival situation. It is not hard to end up with 5000+ rounds of 22 in your ammo box buying some every now and then when its on sale at $15 a brick. This is from a guy that will go through two bricks in a single sitting at the range shooting past 200 yards with my 10/22.
 
#11 ·
22lr has the edge when it comes to penetration

I have heard situations where the 25 acp wouldn't reliably penetrate multiple layers of clothing.

If you are considering either cartridge in a mouse gun....aim for the eyes or ears....LOL

I actually have mouse guns in both and have had no issues with either in reliability. My problem is my hands are way to big to be in anyway proficient with either. My wife and daughters don't have any problems though
 
#13 ·
My understanding is that the .25 came about as a centerfire solution to the .22 rimfire cartridge. I've heard folks talk about rimfire unreliability -- but have never seen one fail to fire. Might be just me, might be days were different back then.

Anyway, problem with the .25 is penetration; it pretty much doesn't have any. Between the two, I'd take the .22LR. However, if I needed a mousegun, I'd take a .380 ... about the same size and weight and more power. If I needed a CCW, I'd take a .45 or a .357.

Not to say no one's hasn't "executed" someone with a .25 -- by holding the gun up to their head or eye -- but that's not what you want in a CCW.
 
#15 ·
The mighty .25 in action!

Years ago, when I was in college, I worked part time at a local waterfront tavern. Next door was a SCUBA/Dive shop. Some guys grabbed some expensive dive equipment, and made a dash for the door, with the owner in hot pursuit. There was some pushing and shoving that ensued. By the time we knew what was going on, the bandits had gotten into a car and were trying to escape. It was winter time and their windows immediately fogged up, so the driver rolled down his window to see. Meanwhile the owner recovered himself enough to produce a .25 auto from his pocket. He grabs the bandit by the neck while he is trying to drive away, so that when the car starts to move it chokes the driver. No one tries to help cause the owners free had is waving the gun around. As the car tried to inch foreward the driver was pulled farther out the window and I think his foot was comming of the pedal a bit. The momentary stalemate allowed us gawkers to move foreward a bit to try and help, when the owner gets an idea. As he holds on to the driver, against he force of the car, he is leaning toward the rear wheel. He decides to shoot out the tire with the .25. As we advance he fires. When he fired we stopped. When the tire was undamaged he fired again. We then ducked for cover. As he continued to fire, and the tire continued unfazed, some of the bouncing bullets were hitting the heavy front windows of the tavern, which were also unfazed. When he finally ran out of ammo we charged and removed the perps from the car. I think the owner got in the most trouble when the police arrived.

As we retreated back into the tavern one of the local wags offered, "If you're ever mad enough to shoot'em, but really don't want to hurt'em, that 25 auto is just the gun to have". :eek::
 
#17 ·
Federal 25ACP 50g FMJ
Muzzle energy - 64
Muzzle velocity - 760

Federal Champion 36g solid, copper washed/plated
Muzzle energy - 80-90
Muzzle velocity - 900 - 950
The variances in the 22 are due to unknown barrel length, but the numbers reflect a barrel under 10 inches.

It looks like the 22 wins.
 
#18 ·
I inherited a Colt Vest Pocket that was my grandfather's. A neat little gun about the size of my palm. Shooting it is a blast and concealing is easy. Being that it is near mint and with the box, I bought a Beretta 950 Jetfire. A single action 9 shot, tip barrel, 25acp. I have a couple hundred rounds through this gun. It has never failed which can't be said for the pocket 22 I had or the 32 I had. The 22 was very picky about ammo and the 32 broke.

I carry the 950 often, but I don't kid myself about it being a combat round. I shoot it very well and very rapid.

As for the price of ammo, so what. A pocket pistol isn't a shoot all day at the range gun.

RE: the comment about a P22, I have one, love it, but it is MUCH larger than my 25's and you can get a 380 in a same sized Walther.
 
#19 ·
Also I believe there is a greater variety of loads available in the .22 including bullet weights that range from in the 20s (CBs) to the 60 gr SSS ammo. Oh and a 40 gr hollow point Velocitor round can be fairly devastating to small game:
At muzzle
Velocity- 1435
Energy- 183

At 100 yards
Velocity- 1084
Energy- 104
 
#20 ·
20 years ago in Sacramento, California, a man named Eric Royce Leonard robbed two businesses on consecutive Tuesday nights. During each robbery he killed 3 people with a Beretta .25ACP. He's been sitting on California's Death Row waiting for the Death Row inmates leading cause of death, old age.

http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/2011/05/ask-sacto-9-1-1-65.html

Yeah the .25ACP will do the job, same as a .22lr. I think it comes down to practice. If you do a lot of it, the .22lr will be less expensive. If you don't, it's a wash.
 
#21 ·
Neither is really an acceptable SD round. The minimum I would recommend based on FBI protocol is a .380, which can be found in extremely concealable guns such as the Ruger LCP or KalTec P3AT.

That said, the .22 is a readily available ammo, who's performance is NOT markedly worse than the .25. The cheap price of ammo and the very large number of rifles and pistols available in .22 make it a much better choice for "SHTF" type of gun if you insist on a smaller caliber. As noted you can't reload, but you can get 500 rounds of .22 for $20, which in comparison to the .25 is an absolute bargain.

The net, depending on the need, the .22 is far and away a much better choice. Though you can't reload this rimfire cartridge, the extremely cheap cost makes large stocks easy and affordable.

If you are looking at using it for anything beyond small game and varmint, neither is an optimal choice.
 
#23 ·
Most 25 cal semi like jenkins are junk. you can buy 500 rds of 22 mini mag ammo for the price of 50 rds of 25. Me i will take the 22 cal anytime over a 25. if your after a nice small semi in a centerfire get the ruger LCP 380 cal i just got 1 and its a great pistol put in your pocket No hamer [DAO] or wear it as a back up piece in a ankle holster, JMO
 
#26 ·
22lr has the edge when it comes to penetration

I have heard situations where the 25 acp wouldn't reliably penetrate multiple layers of clothing.

If you are considering either cartridge in a mouse gun....aim for the eyes or ears....LOL
A 25 acp will shoot through both sides of a 55gallon barrel. A 22 from a RIFLE will only make it through one side of a 55 gallon barrel. I have tried this myself.

The best place to aim is armpit level center of the chest. This will have you hitting the upper part of the heart or the large vessels off the top of the heart. Head shots aren't too good with these small calibers.

For those who like to quote 22 ballistics and compare it to the 25acp how about using the numbers from a 2-3" barrel instead of ballistics from a 24" rifle barrel? If you look at the NAA site you will see that most 22 rounds only get around 650 to 800 fps and thats with the lighter weight 33-36 gr loads from the short barreled revolvers they sell.

Now I do not beleive the 25 is a great SD round. I do think its a little better than a 22 if for no other reason than they are more likely to go off than a rimfire round. There have been junk 25s (just like every other style of gun) but also some of the best in pocket guns. I have owned two Beretta 950BS guns and never had one single jam or misfire out of several hundred rounds fired. And yes, the cost of 25 ammo is crazy expensive. I bought a box of Fiochhi for $14 at the GS and $18 at WM. But its also a better class of ammo compared to most 22 stuff.
 
#42 ·
Well, you are comparing most likely a .25 FMJ v a .22, which by default can have no jacketing. Hence, penetration is going to be higher with a .25 FMJ than a .22 through a static target like a water barrel.

We agree, and for SD, it's pretty much a wash from all data I have seen regarding statistics on the ability to stop a threat, which isn't very good. Because .22 is SO much cheaper, on a budget you can practice a LOT more, and thereby increasing your shot placement. That said, it's better than nothing, but if at all possible, I would suggest going to a min of .380. However, between .22 and .25, for me the choice is pretty clear.
 
#29 ·
The .22LR is the superior defense round if you can find a handgun that is reliable with it. I use my Walther P22 as a pocket gun from time to time, but only because it took 1,500 rounds out of it to smooth out the burrs and make it trustworthy. 25acp handguns tend to be a bit more reliable because the cartridge was designed for handguns.
 
#30 ·
When I took my CCW class the instructor said he will carry his P22 on occasion. His rational was he would rather be able to place 10 rounds right where he wants them because he has complete control versus possibly missing because he is trying to shoot some hand cannon.

As for those that keep talking about rimfire rounds not firing what are you shooting? I can feed my Buckmark, Single Six or 10/22 just about anything and they go bang everytime. Everytime I go to the range I go through a minimum of 500 rounds of. 22. The only rounds I have ever had give me trouble was the cheap Remington Golden Bullet bulk stuff. I have never had issues with Federal or CCI ammo even the bulk stuff. Heck even my ancient Marlin will shoot modern rimfire ammo with no issues. So far this entire year I have only had two failure to feed issues and that was on the 10/22 that was very dirty at the time and a ll I did to resolve the issue was swap out the magazine for a fresh one and had no more issues for the day. The only time I have not had a round cycle the action properly it was expected because I was firing CB longs at the time.

Now my soon to be father in law will have issues with his 22a but then he never cleans the damn thing. In fact many people seem to think that they don't need to clean their 22s like they might their other firearms. This is even common in those circles that shoot the 22 all the time and love it. In the vast majority of gun safes I have been in the 22 rifles and pistols are always the dirtiest of the lot. I borrowed a NEOS from a friend and the action was very rough, after tearing it down I found it to be dirty and that it was bone dry not a drop of oil in the action. Cleaned and properly lubricated it ran like a race gun. Get where I am going with this?
 
#33 ·
Trivia, but does anyone still make those old Raven 25s? I bought one for $39 in 1986... and the thing that flipped everybody out was that those cheap, crappy looking little clunkers never failed to fire a single time at the range. Never. They were the cheapest gun anybody had ever seen and they never had a single hiccup no matter how many rounds were put through them... no matter how long they went without cleaning... and no matter how many times they got dropped in the dirt.

I never trusted the gun because the safety was horrible. It would go from safe to live fire just jiggling around in your pocket... but if anyone is still making them under another name I'd buy one just to have a little clunker that was that reliable.
 
#36 ·
Yeah, the .25 Ravens were pretty reliable, unlike the Titan. I agree you about the safety. I carried an early model Jennings J-22 in my right hip pocket for over 10 years. I never kept one in the chamber but with some practice I could chamber a round with my index finger. I literally shot that little pistol until it broke after more than 25,ooo rounds.

If I may ask, how often did you shoot your Raven? And, did you reload your own ammo for it?
 
#34 ·
Even in short barrels, the .22lr has more energy than the .25ACP. Better penetration, too. I have a Jennings J-22 that will put it's 40gr .22 through our local phonebook at 5 feet every time. My Raven MP-25 will send it's bullet in about 2-3 inches. The phone book is about 5 inches thick.
Either one will work as a "get off me" gun. My grandpa accidentally shot himself in the hand with a .25 once, and it wasn't pretty. Long story, but it went through his hand, bounced off the kitchen table, and hit my aunt in the chest, and went in about 2 inches. You've never seen a Christmas party end so fast!LOL.
 
#38 ·
My question is why and what are you considering either caliber for? Based solely on my preferences id take the 22 cause the ammo is cheap and abundant and would in turn be shot more, the 25 has absolutely nothing to offer along those lines. For a mouse gun for CCW I wouldn't consider either as 380 is the smallest semi-effective caliber I carry. For a collecting purposes id take the 25 as it seems most people would not have them. My buddy has an old WW1 german 32acp the ammo is outrageously priced and I see no practical use for it but should he ever decide to part with it at a buddy discount I would certainly grab up on it and a few boxes of ammo for possible future bartering or to arm up an ally or family member should SHTF. If any gun could be had at a fair price, regardless of caliber I would purchase if I had the spare change so to speak cause I can always find a place to put it, like a glovebox, in the garage, or a friends hand on a wilderness excursion. Have I covered all the bases?
 
#39 ·
My question is why and what are you considering either caliber for?
Who is considering? I just wanted to see some facts/debate on the subject in this thread. The other "Bauer .25ACP" thread I was considering a .25, but just for the collectability.

Based solely on my preferences id take the 22 cause the ammo is cheap and abundant and would in turn be shot more, the 25 has absolutely nothing to offer along those lines. For a mouse gun for CCW I wouldn't consider either as 380 is the smallest semi-effective caliber I carry. For a collecting purposes id take the 25 as it seems most people would not have them. My buddy has an old WW1 german 32acp the ammo is outrageously priced and I see no practical use for it but should he ever decide to part with it at a buddy discount I would certainly grab up on it and a few boxes of ammo for possible future bartering or to arm up an ally or family member should SHTF. If any gun could be had at a fair price, regardless of caliber I would purchase if I had the spare change so to speak cause I can always find a place to put it, like a glovebox, in the garage, or a friends hand on a wilderness excursion. Have I covered all the bases?
I think you are correct though. I'd rather carry my P3AT, Glock 17 or 1911, but I'd feel better with 10 rounds of .22LR than 6 rounds of .25ACP.
 
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