This story demonstrates the ineffectiveness of handguns:
All of this over a couple of shoplifters
I know this video is anectdotal, but it demonstrates that even getting shot in the head with a .45 ACP doesn't guarantee instant incapacitation. Perhaps the outcome could have been worse had the bad guy chose to use jacketed-hollowpoints instead of full-metal jacket ammo.
It never ceases to amaze me how fragile and durable the human body can be. Some people can die from a punch to the head, some can survive a bullet to the brain. Life and death is just a helluva crap shoot when it comes down to it.
The sheriff was shot multiple times with a .45, including the head.
Nothing is a sure thing. Prepare for the worst case scenario. Have a back-up plan in order.
I have to say that when I first read the Filthy McNasty post on the subject I was understanding it to be someone claiming that the .45 is not a man stopper. I see that I may have jumped the gun (No pun intended).
Filthy McNasty is Right. HAVE A BACKUP PLAN! Don't put all of your eggs in one basket, unless your eggs are bullets and the basket is the bad guys mellon.
Either way, Filthy McNasty......My apologies brother. I spoke too soon.
I have heard of people surviving being struck by lightning, Being hit by trains, shot with a .50 rifle round. Falling from a plane and there shoot not opening. Try to jump off of buildings and surviving. Any and all of these are excellent soul dispatching mechanisms for the angel of death.
Just because once and a while someone defies the DEADLY effects of a pistol round to the head shows no evidence of pistol rounds being ineffective against a human target.
The only thing that is confirmed or validated is that he will die another day.
The picture below is of a boy that was walking around his house at night and the Father mistook him for a burglar. The father pulled a .357 magnum pointing it at his son and pulling the trigger. The wound was enormous as one could only imagine knowing the horrific ballistic energy that is dumped by that round when it strikes flesh and bone.
The kid lost half his brain and has undergone countless surgeries to repair the damaged area of the skull with foam and artificial bone plating.
Tell me another that you have know to survive a wound like this.....
The point is....BB gun or bazooka...Its better than nothing. If I have to fight someone with my fist I would choose to fight the guy I just shot in the Mellon with my .45 and still up for a round of boxing. I would hope you and all the others would agree you would have a better chance.......Ultimately.
It's all good, SH. I don't expect everyone to agree with me..
There are plenty of stories out there of individuals surviving .44 Magnum gunshot wounds; people that survived shotgun blasts to the face, etc..
The point of this thread is about what your back-up plan would be if the bad guy you're defending yourself against isn't inapacitated by your bullets. This happens a lot more often than you may think. What if all of your shots miss and you don't have an extra mag or speed-loader? What next? Handguns aren't as powerful as many are lead to believe, and aren't as accurate as long guns when the adrenaline is pumping hard
the biggest thing is how many round can a person can take and then survive the shooting and that the reason to have a few back up plans when a go to heck in a hand basket
This happened locally, and both the cop and the perp took multiple hits during a chaotic gun battle. The "bullet placement" mantra that is repeated over and over on boards such as this may be fine for a day at the range, but the real world doesn't always happen like you think it will.
I have to disagree, if he had been hit by a 9mm he would have been dead before he hit the floor, and the bullet would have passed through 5 innocent bystander... lol
I know this video is anectdotal, but it demonstrates that even getting shot in the head with a .45 ACP doesn't guarantee instant incapacitation. Perhaps the outcome could have been worse had the bad guy chose to use jacketed-hollowpoints instead of full-metal jacket ammo.
Exactly my point. People watch bad guys get shot in the movies and they get blown out of their boots in a dramatic shower of sparks and spectacle. When bad guys get shot in real life and they don't respond like you anticipated, you better have a plan B or plan C at the ready.
Bad guys are on all sorts of pain-numbing, mind-altering drugs like cocaine, meth, speed, or just plain stinkin' drunk.. Adrenaline is another factor. If you can learn how to control your actions while the adrenaline is pumping, your odds of surviving a shootout are much greater
To answer your question, the sheriff kept on fighting with the shoplifter even after getting shot in the mouth.
I'm quite sure getting shot in the head with a .45 will stop anyone in their tracks immediately, even if they don't die. My backup plan? Shoot them again.
Soooo...the Officer took a .45ACP to the face (among getting shot multiple other times)...and it did not stop him. And he continued to get shot after he hit the ground, yet still fought back. I guess that blows your "theory" out the window.
Thanks for the link. I'm always trying to learn about cases where people survive under the worst of conditions. This is the worst head injury survival I've ever seen.
The important thing is the cop DIDN'T GIVE UP!! Even after he was on the ground with the perp standing over him. This was a close range fight, measured in feet, and the cop perservered and didn't quit until the perp was dead.
I'm on dial up so I couldn't watch the video, but this was well covered here in the local press. Officer Reston is back on duty.
The important thing here is not the caliber guns involved, but something much simpler - It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's size of the fight in the dog.
it would seem the common factor for survivability in these situations is fast and excellent medical attention, without medical your dead regardless of caliber or the outlasting of the agressor.
what to take from this; Hi-cap is a need, shot placement, the will to fight and body armor. if the perp's first shot is 3" higher I doubt the LEO lives
The first shot was at a down or upward angle, but a few more degrees into his head and the Frontal Lobe would be on the ceiling, (or if shot down)a few more degree inward the round coulda pounced off his body armor WHILE INSIDE THE BODY. Both horrible and sure way to die. Bullets don't always fly horizontal.....
When I first went to Gunsite in the 80's there was a plaque that said 'They All Fall To Hardball', but that was a Cooper thing that went along with his 'Cult of the 1911'. A few years later I learned better.
Later on Chuck Taylor was the Operations Manager at the time I took the 250 class and he asked the collective group, 'What should you expect to happen when you shoot someone? There were lots of answers and then he said 'Expect absolutely nothing to happen when you shoot someone, you probably won't even be able to tell if you hit them.'
Taylor had WAY more combat experience than Cooper, much of it with a Browning P35. He was a fan of high cap handguns because he said NO handgun is very effective and it takes lots of shooting. He jumped on the Glock band wagon practically the same day they hit US streets.
I don't really consider a shot to the jaw a head shot. It might be part of the head but when I hear head shot I think of a shot to the brain. I am not going to pretend that it did not hurt, because I cant say for sure if I was in his shoes I would be able to continue fighting like him, but if he had been hit 5 inches higher, I really doubt he would have been fighting back at all. So to say officer shot in head fights back means handguns are useless is not accurate, what would have been accurate would have been officer shot in jaw, neck, leg, and vest missing all vital organs fights back.
The kid with half a brain is more a miracle story than the cop fight back, though it is very amazing. I would however bet that the kid went to the ground and did not just come walking into the house and said I have a headache, pretty sure if the cop got hit that way he would have been out for the count.
Have you ever been punched in the jaw? Imagine a half ounce of lead hitting you at 850 FPS..
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