Survivalist Forum banner

What hand held radio - questions

5K views 27 replies 18 participants last post by  Tweightwee 
#1 ·
What handheld radio can give me?:
20-25 mile range regardless of terrain
Under $100
To another hand held radio
Does not need a repeater
Needs or does not need a license
Has more than one channel

I'm obliged for any replies.
 
#3 ·
I work a lot of radio and Jerry is right there isn't one. Handheld radios have low power and terrible antennas so their range is very limited plus most are limited to higher frequencies where range is also limited. Pretty much 27 mHz and above w most much above that. Best range is way down below that where you need an antenna measured in meters not feet long. So I have a tinyl ICOM handheld modified to talk pretty much everything above 50 mHz and use a Ten Tec Scout on a battery with simple wire antennas to talk further.
 
#4 ·
The closest one can come to those specs, other than price, is Low VHF Business Band, on the bottom of the spectrum (26MHz). But they require a license, a freguency search company survey, and run in the $700 to $1,000 range per radio.

Just my opinion.
 
#6 ·
Really....hmmm
Then why have the Baofeng's, Wouxun's, Motorola's, Kenwoods, etc? I suppose, well...I'm confused. Why $200-$1000 radios if you need a repeater to talk distance? And why such expensive radios to talk a couple miles without a repeater when there's much cheaper radios that will do that?
 
#9 ·
Radio wave propagation is a function of output power and wave length. Long waves propagate well, short waves propagate poorly. A long wave at low power can go a long way. A short wave even at high power is very limited in range. Antenna length is a function of wave length. The longer the wave (and lower the frequency), the longer the antenna required to efficiently propagate the wave.

Under the right conditions, you can communicate around the world with 5W of power on the 40m band. However, this requires a dipole antenna 65 feet in length.

A 2m HT with a 10 inch antenna and 5W of output power can go several miles or more over flat terrain, and farther if you are at an elevated point like a hilltop. Running on 440MHz, that range might be less than a mile with the same power level.

How would that be useful? It would be useful if the people you want to talk to are within several miles, or in the case of 440 within a very close range, and are listening on ham bands. 2m is a local area band (tropospheric ducting and moonbounce aside), and 440 could be thought of as a "neighborhood" band. If you want to communicate over longer distances, you would use lower frequency bands and larger antennas. But that doesn't lend itself well to portable hand radios.

A 2m/440 HT radio is useful for getting local intel from other ham radio operators in your area, listening and broadcasting on the local net. Many of these operators probably also have fixed HF stations, and they would likely be sharing information with people on national or international nets and relaying that information to the local net, as well.

So in finding the right radio for your needs, the question is who do you want to talk to and why?
 
#7 ·
HT 2m can go more than 2 miles. But your chief limits are (a) FM is more line of sight than HF (NVIS, ionosphere, etc.) and (c) wattage of probably 5w or less. I've worked the ham satellites 400-500+ miles away at 2 watts or so with the right antenna. But that's a specialized situation and line of sight is in your favor.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I'm confused

Yes you are, and understandably so since you're missing several pieces of the radio puzzle that you really need to know before you can have even a rudimentary understanding of how all this stuff works. Let me give you the briefest of thumbnail sketches on the answers to your questions and hope that gives you a good starting point.

HF (High Frequency) - 3 to 30 Mhz - This is "ham" radio as you're probably thinking about it. The very long signals (wavelength) generated by the transmitter are bounced off the ionosphere and can travel across the world. These are the expensive units - $1000 and up. Great for talking across the country, pretty good at talking across the state, rotten at talking across the county.

VHF (Very High Frequency)- 30 to 300 Mhz and UHF (Ultra High Frequency)- 300 Mhz and up. UHF/VHF radios ($50 and up) produce shorter wavelengths which is "line of sight" meaning that your radio has to be able to see the other radio so to speak - no bouncing off the atmosphere like HF (there are generally good discussions of "line of sight" radio in the manuals of most car radios). These radios talk pretty well 1-5 miles depending upon terrain but need a repeater placed high in the air to improve the line of sight. With repeaters 50+ miles is common .

So to answer your questions:

Why $200-$1000 radios if you need a repeater to talk distance?
You don't - you need a $50 - $200 radio, a repeater and of course, a license.

And why such expensive radios to talk a couple miles without a repeater when there's much cheaper radios that will do that?

The expensive radios don't talk a couple miles they talk a couple thousand miles.

So there you go. I hope it's a good start for you. Read more stuff that interests you on this board, try to define better what you want to accomplish, then these good folks will show themselves to you to be the smart, friendly folks they are.

73
 
#11 ·
So here's the deal.
1) I want to (without repeaters or satellites) - from my house:
Talk to the BOL which is 15 miles,
My wife, who works 20 miles away
My daughter who works 11 miles away
And another who lives 8 miles away

I want to (without use of repeaters and satellites) - from the BOL:
Talk to all members of my MAG with portable units
At most 3-5 miles away
In the worst weather
All terrain types (except large city)
No LoS

Now you know the who and why. It looks like CB is the way to go here. Does that sound about right?
 
#12 ·
It looks like CB is the way to go here. Does that sound about right?
I'm sorry but it's not about right. CB is reliable for a few miles. The realistic top limit for CB is around ten miles. You may have heard claims of guys making contact on CB hundreds or even thousands of miles away. These claims are probably true but that kind of distance is not something that can be counted on. It's mostly luck at that point.

Your best option is ham radio, which comes with some baggage too. With the right gear you can fairly easily reach out 20+ miles with no repeaters. The "baggage" is: A) you and anyone you are talking to needs to be licensed; B) you can't do it with a handheld; and C) the equipment needed will cost more than $100 per station.

Lastly, ham radio has a low barrier to entry but the learning curve is somewhat steep once you are in the door. Setting up effective simplex stations requires more skill than just going through a repeater.

Unfortunately, as already mentioned there is no sleazy-easy solution that meets all of your requirements.
 
#13 ·
Is everyone in your group willing to get a amateur radio license? If not CB or carrier pigeon are your options. Then every person in the county will be jamming the CB channels, so good luck on trying to get through.

Why the aversion for repeaters? They are very effective and will work right up to and some time beyond an event. You can make contact and at least coordinate movements and meet ups.
 
#16 ·
Without licensing and practice, these kind of radios are useless. They are not a "switch it on and push the button and talk " kind of radios.

PL tones, antenna feed lines, SWR, MUF, Solar Flux, Ducting short path/long path..........SSB( upper/lower), All can come into play. With out studying and licensing, stick to CB or smoke signals.
 
#21 ·
Lotta good replies here, from some knowledgable folks.....Now, another viewpoint: :)

As mentioned, HAND-HELD CB's aren't really good for what you're looking for....CB's are the solution, with a little "help", such as the link below:

http://www.copper.com/cart/index.php?cPath=61&osCsid=c129b372304cb873e7a092b4fb5addd2

Here's my setup in my daily-driver:

A Galaxy DX-959 AM/SSB rig:



A fairly nice Power/Echo mic:



A 4-foot Firestick II antenna:



And, the "kicker" that makes the long-range comms "good-to-go":



All of my families' vehicles have a similar setup, and we have tested these under all weather conditions, 30-45 mile comm ranges are achievable 100% of the time.....

Now, before the ARRL Crew starts flaming me, let me say that using linear amplifiers on CB frequencies IS illegal, but in times of natural disasters/emergencies, do you think that the FCC is gonna be looking for a "pirate station"? They'll have bigger fish to fry, and you can rest easy, knowing that you can communicate with your group/loved ones, WITHOUT repeaters or outside help.....I've heard all the rumors that cell phone usage is suspended during times of natural or man-made disasters in an area, and that only police/fire/first-responders will have working phones......conspiracy-theory or not, I take NO CHANCES when it comes to communications with my loved ones, or gathering intelligence.....

Be forewarned, there ARE dangers using these power levels at that frequency, but with some good training and knowledge, these dangers can be mitigated to safe levels.....As for other CB's cramming the channels with static and chatter, if you have enough power on your linear, you can blow them off the air.....set your squelch high enough, you won't even hear their puny 5 watts output, or their little "stinger boards"....

One thing you MUST make sure of when using a linear, is that your SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) is VERY low, or you'll burn out your output transistors on the linear in a hurry....check your SWR at standard power output, THEN boost the signal after you're sure it's low.....The ARRL Handbook is a GREAT source of info, that doesn't just apply to the HAM crowd.....

Finally, I do NOT use my linear amp for daily driving on the roads, the 5/12 watt limits are more than adequate for most usage......However, I test my linear at least once a week, usually in the wee hours, so as not to disturb any neighbors with my chatter, and have a firm knowledge that if needed, our comms will always be there in times of dire need....I do admit, there have been times when I was driving a lonely stretch of road at night, and some trucker had a "stinger board" on his CB (maybe 50 watts output or so), and after 5 minutes of his noisy, inane chatter, I kicked up to about 400 watts, and blew his a$$ right off the channel....:)

Just an alternative solution to your problem.....Let the Flames begin.....:) :) :)

DocZeus
 
#23 · (Edited)
DocZeus - I'm not flaming you, but I just don't see the sense in a $400 illegal CB setup when there are cheaper, better legal solutions.

You can find used HTX-100 10m SSB radios on eBay all the time for around $100-120. To use that radio, you just need to spend 10 hours studying the free tests at QRZ.com, pay $15, take a simple 35-question multiple choice test, and get a license. Then you can operate legally, whenever you want, and learn from and be part of a community of generally very smart and prepped people.

If your goal is to communicate, it makes more sense (to me anyway) to go the legal route and gather the skills and equipment necessary to do that effectively. If your goal is to flex your r-peen by "blowing a guy off the channel" then an illegal linear is probably the way to go. Personally, I see that as sh*tting all over the spectrum. At best it's inconsiderate, at worst its radio pollution.
 
#24 ·
I am going to reintroduce the simplex repeater here.



This is my setup outside the box.

Here is the deal.you are asking too much for handhelds by themselves. The reason we use more advanced radios is the accesories. You are very limited with frs/GMRS radios.

With a small 5 watt radio and a good antenna up on a mast you can expect 20 miles in flat terrain. If you have a setup like mine, you will be able to deploy it on a mountain,like me. With that you can expect a hundred mile diameter range from the repeater.

I understand your reasoning for wanting a complete communication solution but your solution has to include a repeater as does mine.
 
#25 ·
I am going to reintroduce the simplex repeater here.

This is my setup outside the box.

Here is the deal.you are asking too much for handhelds by themselves. The reason we use more advanced radios is the accesories. You are very limited with frs/GMRS radios.

With a small 5 watt radio and a good antenna up on a mast you can expect 20 miles in flat terrain. If you have a setup like mine, you will be able to deploy it on a mountain,like me. With that you can expect a hundred mile diameter range from the repeater.

I understand your reasoning for wanting a complete communication solution but your solution has to include a repeater as does mine.
What is the possible cost for 4 radios, the "simplex repeater" and a good antenna?
 
#27 ·
You can get Boufeng (not sure of the spelling) or Wouxun 2m dual band hand held (HT) radios pretty cheap, from $50 each to up around $120 each. Add in some programming software and a cable for $40 as programming them without a cable and software is a pain. You'll also need a good antenna for the repeater radio with an adapter and cable, you could spend as little as $50 on this or as much as a couple hundred depending on how crazy you go with the antenna and cabling.

The simplex repeaters range from $60 to roughly $100 with a cable to connect to one of the hand held radios. Keep in mind unless you are setting up like CommancheSniper you will not have always on comms from the repeater, batteries only last so long.

You need a minimum of a Tech license to use these radios and repeater, but it is a good solution, I am following CommancheSniper's lead and setting up something similar.

Bottom line, if you want 4 radios a repeater and antenna setup expect to spend around $500-$600
 
#26 ·
Exscuse my ignorance guys but is there a fairly simple solution to portable communication when camping/hiking for say 2-4 miles? Terrain would be bush,plains and hills. Open to options, anything between $130 - $180 per unit plus any extra's is in the budget at the moment.
 
#28 ·
I think your best bet is the Australian version of the U.S. GMRS. I think you guys call it "UHF CB". You will need real, 5 watt, radios not the cheap, low power bubble pack radios. I don't know what the actual legalities are in Australia. I'm sure a local ham club could set you straight. The next simplest solution is get everyone a ham ticket. If your amature radio service is anything like ours, the entry level license will be enough.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top