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Lidocaine injectable substitute

29K views 60 replies 30 participants last post by  hanzy4200 
#1 ·
I'm trying to beef up my first aid supplies and I'd like to have injectable lidocaine for nerve blocks during field procedures.

Can't get it without a prescription.

What about Pen G. procaine? Would the procaine in the solution be sufficient to block nerves or for subcutaneous application?
 
#4 ·
man that's a tough one. I'm drawing a blank. Without the script, I don't know what you can use. ?
 
#9 ·
I haven't found a suitable replacement for Lidocaine yet, but in personal experience when you set up for a suture, sometimes it is faster to just throw in a couple of stitches without anesthetics.

Lidocaine burns like hell anyways, so it's just as painful to give the injections to do a block as it is to sew quick.

That or if the lac is in a location that you can staple skip the sutures altogether.

I've had good luck with cyano acryclics as well.
 
#11 ·
I haven't found a suitable replacement for Lidocaine yet, but in personal experience when you set up for a suture, sometimes it is faster to just throw in a couple of stitches without anesthetics.

Lidocaine burns like hell anyways, so it's just as painful to give the injections to do a block as it is to sew quick.

That or if the lac is in a location that you can staple skip the sutures altogether.

I've had good luck with cyano acryclics as well.
Medical grade, or Dollar Tree grade? ;)
 
#13 ·
When I was raising show goats, my vets kept me well supplied with Lidocane so that I could "humanely and painlessly" dehorn the wethers. Half a cc per horn bud on 3 day old kids. Did around 200 wethers each spring, and my country vet wasn't about to have me bring each and every one up to the clinic, so he'd just hand over a couple of bottles.

Everyone needs a country vet...
 
#15 ·
Who here has the medical training and experience necessary to do a nerve block?? Are you serious....I have seen talented anesthesiologists have difficulty with this procedure! Injecting whiskey or some type of topical cream is just plain nuts, not only will it not work, it will do more harm than good. Injecting the wrong type of anesthesia and/or in the wrong place could cause paralysis, loss of limb and death.
 
#16 ·
It took 15 posts, but I knew it was coming.

Do I really need to explain that someday you may find yourself having to do an amputation or major debridement of putrid necrotic flesh on your screaming thrashing ___ (insert wife, son, group member, etc.) and that professional help won't be available? And that you'll find your limited skills better than nothing in the face of certain death?

OR that none of us are doing this casually, on weekends, for fun when we're done building ships in bottles or model train layouts?

C'mon now.
 
#18 ·
have you ever actually dealt with a serious injury? with the protective posturing, screaming and shock?

really think your kid will let you sew up his arm that's a mangled mess...or partial amputation at a joint?

if you think you will be able to amputate, sew up flesh, ect. even in a post SHTF situation, you're in for a surprise.
 
#19 ·
I am retired OR nurse. I think I have a better idea than some, of the kind of medical situations we would be dealing with post SHTF. The one major mistake, most of the untrained make, is believing that the medical help that will be available will be up to modern expectations and that with no hands on experience, they will be able to follow a set of written instructions, intended for application in a modern hospital, with a positive outcome. Add to that, I have never seen a nerve block accomplished without the aid of conscious sedation, without which it would be an extremely painful procedure and that they take aprox. 20 minutes to take full effect.
BullerBuller State tourniquet placement and anatomical landmarks for the insertion of an ulnar nerve block, type and dosage of anesthetic and type of needle, calculated for a 12 year old child, the amount of time the tourniquet should be in place and the proper methods for removal. If you even get close, I will back down.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
 
#22 ·
Go pound sand.

The thread is about supply acquisition. I couldn't care less about your challenge.

With such a stellar resume, why don't you teach us something other than "leave it to the pros or let them die". Because, in short, that's what you're saying. You've boasted of your credentials but offered nothing.

Troll for your ego boost elsewhere.
 
#24 ·
Add to that, I have never seen a nerve block accomplished without the aid of conscious sedation
That all depends on what you are blocking.... I
attended a class put on by Uncle Sam where we blocked each other up to the elbow and knee using only lidocain injections; and the instructor demonstarted up to the hip and some rib areas on a "volunteer".... no sedation required; and it was not that difficult.... watch one, do one teach one.

mk
 
#25 ·
I think some of the medically trained are referring to an actual nerve block. Others seem to mean local anesthetics. Two entirely different things.
As far as watch one, do one, teach one....not for nerve blocks unless there was a total disregard for the potential untoward consequences.
Its been suggested before that doctor wannabees take some EMT courses at the very least. I don't think this can be emphasized enough.
 
#27 ·
I would suggest looking into some of the advnture tourism guides that sell trips to third world **** holes. They often give a list of meds to bring with you, keep in mind it is not for you to use, but to provide to the local medics incase you need it. Some of these "hospitals" wont have it.

Take the list to you doc and tell him your going and this is what you need, most cases there is even a letterhead with the list, your doc will understand what its for and shouldnt have a problem writing the scripts, so long as it isnt loaded with narcotics.
 
#30 ·
Interesting. That web site says it has 'pure' coffee.
I wonder what the 'pure' coffee uses are.

I know 'pure' nicotene is deadly. I would think 'pure' coffee wouild be the same.
 
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#29 ·
0.9% Benzyl alcohol and injectable benadryl have been found to have similar properties in regards to local numbing to lidocaine.....the info I saw was specific to local injection ...ie numbing just the tissue around where you are sewing; not sure about the "nerve" block ie numbing the nerve in a specific location to cause the whole area distal of the injection point to be numbed....

If you want to practice your sewing technique we used to practice on pigs feet (talk to your local butcher) or cheap wise thin skinned oranges or clemantines....

I would imagine in a SHTF scenario if you kept benadryl PO capsules for regular allergy type stuff you could powder it down and mix with sterile water to make an injectable solution: typical pharmacy bought injectable benadryl is 50mg in 2cc.... pills are usually 25mg per capsule....I wouldnt try it unless things were really in the toilet. A quick intraweb search shows benzyl alcohol for non medical purposes readily available on the web ( side note, a little more searching shows that it is also the main ingedient in lice killer...so bonus)

mk
 
#37 ·
I've given some thought to alternative anesthesia, either using topical agents (benzocaine, lidocaine creams) applied to the wound edges or through some other means of sedation. I just haven't really come up with anything that I would feel comfortable using on someone without some sort of field trials.

What I really want to have is Lidocaine 1% USP, Lidocaine 2% USP, with and without Epinephrine. Maybe add some Fentanyl, or Versed to the list.

There are a couple of us that have not only the training but the actual experience of doing these local, digital and nerve blocks, and some fairly complicated suturing techniques with good results.


Not all of us were trained to just put on a bandaid and call "911" or drive faster to the ER :thumb:
 
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